Weed killer confusion

[Victoria Plum]

Ok, here's the reason for my confusion.

I am browsing the b and q outdoor book, and have now come across 3 types of weedkiller quoted on different pages.

1. Translocated weedkiller, ground elder
2. Non-risidual weedkiller, prepping wild flower meadow
3. Systemic weedkiller


What does what? !

[JWK]

Originally Posted by Victoria Plum

Ok, here's the reason for my confusion.

I am browsing the b and q outdoor book, and have now come across 3 types of weedkiller quoted on different pages.

1. Translocated weedkiller, ground elder
2. Non-risidual weedkiller, prepping wild flower meadow
3. Systemic weedkiller


What does what? !

1 & 3 are the same thing in the way they kill weeds. They get inside the plant and slowy kill it. I reckon the difference is that the ground elder weedkiller (translocated) may be something you spray on the ground and it gets into the emerging shoots as the weed pokes its way through; so it carries on working for several months (or years!) and will probably kill anything in that patch of ground. Whereas the systemic weedkiller will be something you spray directly onto the leaves of the plant and it absorps it through it's leaves, you can be more selective by only spraying the weeds you ant to kill.

2) The non-residual stuff means it is a one-off, the weeds need to be actively growing when you spray and it will act quicker than a systemic weedkiller, after a week or two everything dies off, then it's safe to plant with something new.


Whatever you use, ground elder is a real troublesome weed to eradicate, a combination of digging up roots and spraying with Roundup (or the cheaper Wilckos alternative containing glyphosate) will control it to some extent.

[Victoria Plum]

Brilliant, brilliant! Thank you. Great explanation (wasn't that a book?! Hee hee).

I have had to get rid of a whole bed of perenial geraniums because it was 50/50 with ground elder and I couldn't even seperate it out to spray it. The roots were entwined too. They must have been left for a while before we moved in. Total nightmare.

[theplantman]

just a hint dont spray untill april and do it in a warm spell when plants are really growing also ground elder is tough so spray more than once and then leave the bed for a while to see if any re-grows.
All retail chemical weedkillers now use glyphosate as there active ingredient...everything else including sodium chlorate have been banned. They will makrket them all slightly differenty but they are all based on glyphosate.

[pete]

So they have now banned sodium chlorate, have they.
I never used it but I'm sure it was cheaper than glyphosate.
Can you still get weedol, useless stuff, but it worked fast.

I bought some recently, in readiness for the coming season and payed £7.49 for enough to treat 185sq yards, its not much when you work it out, and thats only one treatment, tough weeds need at least two I find.

So its like spraying gold dust.

[JWK]

Originally Posted by theplantman

All retail chemical weedkillers now use glyphosate as there active ingredient...everything else including sodium chlorate have been banned. They will makrket them all slightly differenty but they are all based on glyphosate.

That's not right theplantman, there are still other weedkillers apart from glyphosate anyone can buy, such as weedol which contains diquat - like pete says its fast acting - only kills green stuff but doesn't get into the plant like glyphosate. I think sodium chlorate is to be banned this July.

[cajary]

Sodium Chlorate has already been banned. SBK is the most effective poison I've found for Ground Elder. I've completely eradicated it from 3 gardens just using SBK. I'm building up a stock of it 'cause I'm pretty sure they'll ban that next.

[theplantman]

Originally Posted by JWK

That's not right theplantman, there are still other weedkillers apart from glyphosate anyone can buy, such as weedol which contains diquat - like pete says its fast acting - only kills green stuff but doesn't get into the plant like glyphosate. I think sodium chlorate is to be banned this July.

your right had forgotton weedol think pete mentioned it too,,the banned list gets a bigger and bigger Im sure I read bifentherin is going this year too.
A goo d ting I think...but does have its consequences for the farmers and nurseries (laws are obviouslety different for them but their arsenal is shrinking too)

[pete]

We will be back to spraying with washing up liquid soon, but they will probably ban that as well.

If it carries on like this people will go back to making up their own mixes, and god knows what some of them will contain.

Apparently diesel works quite well on weeds, hate to think what it does to the soil though, but at least its not banned, just joking.

[Victoria Plum]

So, what is SBK?

[pete]

Have a look here VP.

http://www.capitalgardens.co.uk/v3/s...te-p-6401.html

[Dave W]

Last year I was looking for a good persistent weed killer and control that was cheaper than Roundup as I had a very large area to treat in mum in law's garden and to treat it with Roundup would have cost an arm and a leg.
I posted a question on GC and one of the pro gardeners on here suggested I try 'Pistol'. It is used by local authorities etc for weed control. The smallest size isn't cheap, but it still works out a heck of a lot cheaper than anything you can buy in a shop(one litre treats 2,222 sq m) Furthermore it works very well and the area I treated last year (July I think) is still clear - though I may well need to apply another dose in a month or so.

This stuff is for use where you want NOTHING to grow and it is supposed to last for at least 6 months.

http://www.amenity.co.uk/webstore/pr...j85ekv6tv8ftu1

[cajary]

Excellent link from pete regarding SBK.
However, if you're going to use it on grass, keep to the instructions. It won't kill grass but it will make it look very ill for a little while if you use too much. Also, bear in mind, that this is basically "Agent Orange". From a personal point of view, I won't use it if there are any females in the area when I'm treating weeds.

[Victoria Plum]

Originally Posted by cajary

Excellent link from pete regarding SBK.
However, if you're going to use it on grass, keep to the instructions. It won't kill grass but it will make it look very ill for a little while if you use too much. Also, bear in mind, that this is basically "Agent Orange". From a personal point of view, I won't use it if there are any females in the area when I'm treating weeds.

I think I'm being thick - I don't understand!

[Dave W]

Originally Posted by Victoria Plum

I think I'm being thick - I don't understand!

You're too young, not thick !
Agent orange was a defoliant and herbicide used by the US during the Vietnam war mainly to reduce the cover provided by the jungle. It had some very nasty side effects on the population.

[Victoria Plum]

Originally Posted by Dave W

You're too young, not thick !
Agent orange was a defoliant and herbicide used by the US during the Vietnam war mainly to reduce the cover provided by the jungle. It had some very nasty side effects on the population.

Oh.. I see! Is it really dangerous stuff then??????????

[cajary]

Hmm! Well, it's probably not dangerous if it's used correctly. The reason why most of the useful chemicals have been banned is that they weren't used correctly.People just sprayed them everywhere like they were water vapour. They're not. They're poisons. Dicquat, that has been mentioned, is deadly if ingested. Use a jet of the poison or paint it on the weeds with a brush but if you're using them as a spray, wear a face mask. SBK is my poison of choice for broad-leaved weeds but I treat it with a lot of respect.

[Louise]

I won't and never will use Round Up. A lot of garden stores in Brittany have taken it off the shelves though it is still available. I will have to be careful what I say because according to the entry of wikipedia (Round Up - Monsanto) the company have a policy of 'aggressive litigation ' . I think it was the main weed killer that was banned by the Mayor of Roscoff.

[JWK]

Louise, why wouldn't you use Roundup? As far as I know it's about the safest weedkiller to humans on the market (you just have to be careful near amphibians so don't spray near ponds). The active ingredient is called glyphosate and several other manufacturers as well as Monsanto sell it using different names to Roundup.

[Louise]

I will send you some info over the weekend. I am new to serious gardening/ veggie growing, but I am interested in the( or rather my bit of ) earth as much as I am having a garden that looks/ performs well.
I don't know if you had reports of the beaches in Northern France that had toxic seaweed, but the blame was apportioned, from some quarters to the various chemicals that farmers use which eventually trickles back into the sea.
Farming is big business here and if some weed killers have been banned, I wouldn't have thought that the decision has been taken lightly.
I chose to rid my veggie plot of all weeds by hand and I expect that I will have to do keep doing that for many years to come too, but it's a small price to pay. I'm not a crank and I might be proven to be wrong, but using Round Up is not the way I want to go.