Brexit -am I stupid or what

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by wiseowl, Dec 10, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Loofah

    Loofah Admin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2008
    Messages:
    12,384
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Guildford
    Ratings:
    +21,137
    They said exactly the same thing last time - and they caved just like always!
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • clanless

      clanless Total Gardener

      Joined:
      Jan 20, 2013
      Messages:
      3,201
      Gender:
      Male
      Occupation:
      Gentleman of leisure.
      Location:
      North Wales
      Ratings:
      +7,618
      Politics Live on beeb this morning.

      Suggestion that the surrender bill did not technically comply with parliamentary procedures - is this Boris's escape route perhaps?
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • Informative Informative x 1
      • Creative Creative x 1
      • ARMANDII

        ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

        Joined:
        Jan 12, 2019
        Messages:
        48,096
        Gender:
        Male
        Ratings:
        +100,834
        Sorry for my late entry in into the thread. Been out of this thread for 5 days or more due to being "slightly off colour" and unable to take any notice of what has been happening in Parliament and GC, so I'll have a litte browse through and try to catch up.

        The UK does have a vote on a BREXIT agreement, Parliament has voted against the one the EU wants. The EU regards that agreement as a "done deal" while refusing to recognise that May had to take it back to Pariliament for ratification and it was not ratified and so was only a "done deal" in the eyes of the EU. The UK is not on trial with 27 members having their say while the UK stands in the Dock, it can, and has said No to the present deal. Where the tricky bit comes is where the UK Prime Minister has, technically, the power to veto, at a meeting with the EU. asking for an extension where no Political Party, not just Boris and the present government, has a viable plan to present to the EU which is refusing to change it's stance of only recognising the deal that they want which includes a Back Stop, which will keep the UK in the EU until the EU agrees to releasing the EU from it...........which is not likely to happen for several years, if ever, in my opinion, for what it is worth, is that the Prime Minister does have constitutionally have that Veto power. But, due to the lack of precedence, it is open to interpretation as is Members of Parliament making up laws to suit their own interest rather than the UK's. and therefore pushing the bounds of the Constitution. Parliament is suspended until the Queen's Speech on 14th October, which leaves 17 days of more attempts to stop a BREXIT of any kind.
        In this country we use, mainly, two kinds of Law and Legislation, Criminal and Civil, which is updated with more amending legislation as circumstances demand. However, there is now a third category of Legislation that has surfaced that is a very questionable, murky, undemocratic, although within the Constitution, where what we still call Members of Parliament can pass legislation against each other. That category has always been there since the days of Cromwell but has been little used and has very little precedence to use as a measuring stick in a Court of Law. As we have seen there have been quite a few, well funded, attempts in the Court to stop this Government from Proroguing Parliament until 14th October........and all have failed. So, as all legislation passed in Parliament is subject to challenge and "testing", the legislation to make Boris ask for an extension with the EU can be tested. Should a challenge of the Legislation been taken to Court on the grounds that Parliament itself recognises that it has no plan, viable or not, to have grounds to ask for an extension then another time delaying "Can of Worms" is opened. The legislation for stopping a No Deal Brexit is more of a gesture as should the UK reach the 31st with a new agreement or viable plan then, if the EU is not asked for an extension, or if asked and refuses then Article 50 is triggered.
        So it could go right to the wire, where Boris refuses to obey the Legislation to ask for a extension, as he has said openly that he will do, then Parliament will be even more chaotic than it is now.............it's going to be interesting to watch.
         
        • Informative Informative x 2
        • Like Like x 1
          Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
        • Loofah

          Loofah Admin Staff Member

          Joined:
          Feb 20, 2008
          Messages:
          12,384
          Gender:
          Male
          Location:
          Guildford
          Ratings:
          +21,137
          Isn't the british legal system wonderful.
           
          • Funny Funny x 2
          • ARMANDII

            ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

            Joined:
            Jan 12, 2019
            Messages:
            48,096
            Gender:
            Male
            Ratings:
            +100,834
            After a couple of decades consulting in it the answer, Loofah, is £$!!*&, NO!! But it is better than most other countries legal system. Our problem is that the EU has overlaid and suppressed UK law with a flood, over the decades, of it's own legislation. Once free of foreign legisation from an unelected body then we can sort things out on our own.
             
            • Funny Funny x 2
            • Loofah

              Loofah Admin Staff Member

              Joined:
              Feb 20, 2008
              Messages:
              12,384
              Gender:
              Male
              Location:
              Guildford
              Ratings:
              +21,137
              So in 100 years or so...
               
            • Loofah

              Loofah Admin Staff Member

              Joined:
              Feb 20, 2008
              Messages:
              12,384
              Gender:
              Male
              Location:
              Guildford
              Ratings:
              +21,137
              Oh, and I;ve just seen Bercow is departing :)
               
              • Like Like x 2
              • ARMANDII

                ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

                Joined:
                Jan 12, 2019
                Messages:
                48,096
                Gender:
                Male
                Ratings:
                +100,834
                I didn't know you were an Optimist, Loofah:scratch::dunno::heehee:
                 
                • Funny Funny x 2
                • ARMANDII

                  ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

                  Joined:
                  Jan 12, 2019
                  Messages:
                  48,096
                  Gender:
                  Male
                  Ratings:
                  +100,834
                  Yep, I watched him announce his leaving.........I had to reach for the bucket as the accolades, praise, applause, reached such levels of hypocrisy, lying, two faced homage made me feel overwhelmingly nauseous, while all they've wanted to do over the years is to..........

                  upload_2019-9-9_17-2-5.jpeg

                  Labour and the Liberals gave him a standing applause because in the BREXIT saga he has neither liked May and detests Boris and his Cabinet and given them more leeway for time to make motions that would, as a Remainer, suit his purposes. He, like many of the others that have stood down, will not have to go the the Job Centre.
                   
                  • Agree Agree x 2
                  • Like Like x 1
                  • lolimac

                    lolimac Total Gardener

                    Joined:
                    Feb 4, 2019
                    Messages:
                    1,479
                    Gender:
                    Female
                    Location:
                    East Riding of Yorkshire
                    Ratings:
                    +4,927
                    :hapfeet::hapfeet::hapfeet::hapfeet::yahoo::yahoo::yahoo::yahoo::hapydancsmil::hapydancsmil::hapydancsmil:
                     
                    • Agree Agree x 2
                    • Like Like x 1
                    • wiseowl

                      wiseowl FRIENDLY ADMIN Staff Member

                      Joined:
                      Oct 29, 2006
                      Messages:
                      44,110
                      Gender:
                      Male
                      Occupation:
                      Philosophy of people
                      Location:
                      In a barn somewhere in North Kent
                      Ratings:
                      +89,259
                      Lindsay Hoyle Deputy speaker could be the new one:blue thumb:
                       
                      • Like Like x 2
                      • Scrungee

                        Scrungee Well known for it

                        Joined:
                        Dec 5, 2010
                        Messages:
                        16,524
                        Location:
                        Central England on heavy clay soil
                        Ratings:
                        +28,996
                        I'll never forget the account of when a driver reversed into Bercow's car, and he exclaimed “I’m not happy!” To which the driver replied: “Well, which one of the seven dwarves are you?”
                         
                        • Funny Funny x 8
                        • Like Like x 1
                        • noisette47

                          noisette47 Total Gardener

                          Joined:
                          Jan 25, 2013
                          Messages:
                          5,861
                          Gender:
                          Female
                          Location:
                          Lot-et-Garonne, Aquitaine
                          Ratings:
                          +13,958
                          I've read some total b****** coming from this direction, but that tops the lot. :thud: Just how does depriving young people of the opportunity to freely travel, study and work in 27 countries constitute their 'best interests'? Utter cobblers.
                           
                          • Agree Agree x 2
                          • Friendly Friendly x 1
                          • Fat Controller

                            Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

                            Joined:
                            May 5, 2012
                            Messages:
                            26,198
                            Gender:
                            Male
                            Occupation:
                            Public Transport
                            Location:
                            At me 'puter, GCHQ Ashford Office, Middlesex
                            Ratings:
                            +48,819
                            Aside from the fact that they will need to complete some paperwork, they will still be able to do all of those things. If someone wants to study and work in a foreign country and are unable to complete a process of documentation, then bluntly they are not suitable to go. I can also agree with the sentiment that leave voters are being painted as the cowboys in all of this (including the likes of BBC and Sky), and remain voters seem to believe they are wholly the good guys. The fact that those same good guys are running around the streets, hurling abuse, and threatening people seems to be conveniently missed.
                             
                            • Agree Agree x 5
                            • ARMANDII

                              ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

                              Joined:
                              Jan 12, 2019
                              Messages:
                              48,096
                              Gender:
                              Male
                              Ratings:
                              +100,834
                              I think "fighting" among ourselves is a mistake whether we want to leave the EU or not as it only adds to the confusion and chaos of mental logjam without achieving anything. One of the problems to my mind is that the EU has managed to convince a lot of people, not only in the UK, but in other countries that they can't live without it, that they will lose the ability to travel, to have medical services, will be thrown out of the country where they are residing and have businesses. I don't believe such a thing will happen, or is even being contemplated within the UK, so why do people livng abroad think it might happen to them?, is the EU so rule ridden, bureaucratic, that it has forgotten the Human side of politics?.
                              Politics are a state of mind, we create the borders, we create the rules, we create the paperwork, we create the problems and the bureaucracy that threaten peoples livelihood... not the borders........and when a bureaucracy becomes all powerful, changing from a Trading Organisation to a Political Animal then it changes from being meant to improve Life and prosperity between independent countries to one which decides how a person can work, live, how their country is ruled by an non elected group of officials and held "prisoner" by the huge debts that shackle them to the EU then something is wrong.
                              I understand how, and why, people living and running businesses are feeling angry and frustrated, they fear the worst and no one should be living in fear but perhaps the spectre of a damocles sword of being a immigrant in a foreign country will always be there as the International Political world is always swirling and changing, and perhaps they are more vulnerable to Campaign Fear. But perhaps., (and I apologise if I cause offence), they use their fears for the younger generation as a unintentional cover for their fears for themselves.
                              Leavers are often accused of being reckless for even contemplating leaving the EU, Deal or No Deal, of leaving the "Safe Haven" of the EU and driving, like a Lemming, over the Cliff of Uncertainty, into trading. financial and political disaster. Whereas, I think Leavers can see the increasing dangers of losing their political, trading and financial independence, and becoming absorbed in a political organisation that wants to create an Empire/Federation and becoming unable to make our own National Decisions as a free and independent country making our own mistakes and instead suffering those of the EU..........and History has shown us what happens to them..........in other words this is more than our children being able to travel freely within Europe, it's about our children being able to travel freely in the world as independent citizens.

                              Sorry for being longwinded......I need a Mug of Tea and an amble around the garden.:cat-kittyandsmiley::coffee:
                               
                              • Like Like x 5
                              • Agree Agree x 2
                                Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
                              Loading...
                              Thread Status:
                              Not open for further replies.

                              Share This Page

                              1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
                                By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
                                Dismiss Notice