Brexit -am I stupid or what

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by wiseowl, Dec 10, 2018.

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  1. pete

    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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    The reason we are in the mess that we are now is that remainers have spent three years doing their utmost to overcome the result of the referendum.

    At the moment they are hiding behind not wanting a "no deal", but they are actually not wanting to leave. Deal or no deal.

    And in the process have stopped a deal for three years.

    So, if in the unlikely event that we should actually leave with no deal the only people I can see to blame are the remain MPs.
    They have stifled any real negotiating power on the side of the UK.

    Sorry, but that is how I see it.:frown:
     
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    • longk

      longk Total Gardener

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      Correct, but to remove five days sitting when there was only eighteen days left is idiotic at best, underhand most likely and frankly about his own career and nothing else.

      Probably best to read it then. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the current morass that we find ourselves in. Robert Harris is actually pro EU................

      NPR Choice page
       
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      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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        Is it a good book then @longk? I doubt it will be there tomorrow (although I will look if it is a good book), I was just stunned by the cover.
         
      • longk

        longk Total Gardener

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        It is a perfectly good book and a very good ode to the dangers of tolerating nationalism. I would suggest that the more fervent brexiteers would do well to remember what nationalism did to Germany in real life and what becoming more inclusive has done for Germany since those dark days.
        To my mind Dominion by C.J.Sansom is a better "what if Germany won" novel but Fatherland is a good read nonetheless.

        Why? It sometimes seems that the EU flag is an object of hate here in the UK and that (very old) cover depicting it with the Nazi swastika plays into the hands of the more ardent brexiteers and the rubbish that they spew forth about the EU.

        Just my opinions :dunno:
         
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        • CanadianLori

          CanadianLori Total Gardener

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          Sorry @pete but it is quite different this side of the pond. Many politicians were forced to quit because of these shenanigans and Trudeau dumped someone in his own party less than 3 years ago over the same type of stunt from some 25 years ago and calling the guy a racist. So a little of the pot calling... He was just sorry he got caught. He also got called on for groping a woman years ago but we let that one pass as he was a kid but... his father was the champion of multiculturalism so the apple did fall fairly far.

          He might get in again. We'll see. He's not evil. Just a little stupid :)
           
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          • ARMANDII

            ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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            That doesn't make sense, longk, because, frankly, he's picked up the poisoned chalice that no other Politician wanted, has been attacked from all side by the remainers and a UK Media that has always sought to undermine any Political Leader of any colour, find something "scandalous" to blow up beyond reason, been called a Buffoon, a Liar, racist, underhanded, and so on, is at the top of a Politicians career by becoming the Prime Minister while being threatened with by all Parties of all sorts of things including of being thrown out of Parliament..........sounds like a great career opportunity.:dunno:
             
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            • Fat Controller

              Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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              I was stunned to see the Swastika more than anything, but particularly beside the EU flag as the stated aims of the EU do not align with the Nazis, hence seeing them together was something of a surprise.
               
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              • ARMANDII

                ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                Most of the "fervent" Brexiteers I know, longk, are most definitely not nationalist or racist and find it frustrating and irksome to be labeled so. They are not Far Right, Facist, extremists, but merely want to be free from the clutches of the EU. It is so easy to point in the direction of Brexiteers and infer they are taking the UK into a Nationalist, anti-immigrant, being a danger to the freedom and future of the UK.....and that pointing and accusing is going on right now.
                What is wrong is wanting to be a independent trading country?, being free of legislation that is shackling the country tighter and tighter into the EU?. Accusations could be made that the EU, by wanting to become a Federation by seizing financial and political control over it's member countries is leading them towards what happened long ago in Germany and, in that sense, are Facist inclined.
                 
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                • CanadianLori

                  CanadianLori Total Gardener

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                  I remember seeing parliament on television whilst visiting. What does the broadcaster show in it's place during proroguing... old on the bus episodes? :heehee:
                   
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                  • longk

                    longk Total Gardener

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                    I seem to recall that there was at least twelve of them wanted it and at least eleven were more qualified and competent than what we got.

                    With all due respect that is complete and utter rubbish and straight out of the Nigel Farage/JRM book of ridiculous hyperbole.
                     
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                    • ARMANDII

                      ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                      Let's say some voiced their desire to be Leader of the Party but actually only 3, in reality, had any chance, and everyone including the applicants knew that.

                      With all due respect, my friend, I was merely inferring the same that you were inferring about certain Brexiteers. Nationalistic, Facist as in Germany etc.:dunno:
                       
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                      • CanadianLori

                        CanadianLori Total Gardener

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                        @longk, I have a great deal of respect for you but I remember you accusing me of taking the "leave" attitude straight out of Nigel's playbook and I was a little puzzled since I had stated my humble opinion about how I would feel if my country relinquished control over domestic and most trade issues to a federation bent on total control over my Canada.

                        Really, I didn't study, or in fact, even read this man's opinions.

                        Why do you keep accusing people of not having independent impressions and able to draw their own conclusions ?

                        Believe you me, I love your country and since my mother was a war bride from Darlington, I know the pride of independence that she held in every part of her life. She's probably rolling over in her grave at the economic surrender that has become the "benefit" of the union.

                        No, it doesn't affect me, but I am deeply troubled by the split this battle has caused and yes, I may be an old gal but I am still capable of forming my own opinions and also, am very respectful of other's. :)

                        And the only Nigel I've heard of had other people making plans for him:roflol:
                         
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                          Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
                        • noisette47

                          noisette47 Total Gardener

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                          Slight exaggeration there, non?;) IIRC, the EU did make concessions, they just weren't considered enough.
                           
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                          • Fat Controller

                            Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                            A lesser exaggeration than saying there were no major events under John Major's watch, non? They made no concession on the main issue which was relating to state benefits - so much so, after the Brexit vote, a German MEP gave the EU Commission a pretty fine dressing down in a speech she gave in the EU Parliament. If I can find a clip of that speech, I will, but it was a while ago.

                            Even this very week, watching videos in the EU Parliament I have seen their "democracy" in action - MEP's being given 30 seconds or so to make a representation or question, and being cut off or completely disregarded for daring to support Brexit - one was a Brexit Party MEP, the other was an Italian MEP. It is NOT a democracy, it is a dictatorship masquerading as a democracy.
                             
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                            • Loofah

                              Loofah Admin Staff Member

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                              He was a teacher at the time and they have fancy dressing up days - my wife does the same as a teacher and it's just getting into the theme of the day. I guess as a politician you're not allowed to have a normal life at all. That said, it looks like he's exiting the office anyway so he can go back to teaching :)

                              Agree and have said so plenty of times - way too late now and all the bad blood that has been let will prevent any agreement about anything for some time to come.

                              Think some also mentioned prison for him!
                              There was a Stargate SG-1 episode where, in an alternate timeline, the team were battling up stairs to throw a message into the stargate (and save the world, natch) and getting zapped one by one until at the last gasp of the final team member and the message got through. Brexit resonates with that for me.
                               
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