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Brexit -am I stupid or what

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by wiseowl, Dec 10, 2018.

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  1. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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    Well, I think we have all done extremely well, and my hat off to all that have taken part in this controversial and sensitive thread by keeping it on track and as amicablely as possible. But, I do think personal accusations should not be on this thread either against Admin or any member of the GC Gang. Let me make it clear, Redwing, GC Admin have the right to post and take part in threads, however controversial, as ordinary members and express their opinion as all members, including yourself, do. I think you are in the belief that any ordinary post by any member of Admin cannot be treated as posted by an ordinary member. The day that actually happens I will gladly resign knowing that I and the rest of Admin failed to keep our duty of being Admin and that of being an ordinary member separate.
    Views by all participants on this thread can be forceful and passionate but not taking the form of bullying or overbearing to my knowledge and there has been forceful opinions been displayed on both sides of the argument but nobody but your good self has expressed accusations of bullying or bias by Admin. All who have taken part in this thread are biased, including yourself, in some form or another but all, including all members of Admin have posted as part of the GC Gang wanting to express their own personal opinions/bias/feelings.

    But surely posts on this thread are not meant to be neutral? I have pointed out many times that Admin are entitled to taking off their Admin coat to enjoy being in the GC Gang, being able to take part as ordinary members, take criticism, being teased, insulted, etc and to do so without being regarded as Admin, why should we have to stand back in the distance and act only in official capacity? If I or any other member of the Admin team thought for a second that they could not separate being an Adminstrator and as an ordinary member of GC and then being neutral when dealing with any problem I/they would resign, if not asked to by the rest of the Admin team.
    You made the complaint in this thread that Admin were being too lenient by allowing members to make indirect "language" such as PITA, etc, yet within days you posted direct foul language even after an explanation as to why we allowed "indirect" language.......you cannot have it both ways.
    I would like this Thread to continue as it has, walking the fine line of frustation, anger, reason and humour and I hope it will do so despite your accusations against Admin.
    I would ask you that, if it is your opinion, that bullying or overstepping of any member of the Admin Team, including myself, is that you trust in the neutrality of GC Admin when taking decisions regarding complaints and report those individuals. If you cannot bring yourself to make those complaints officially then I apologize to you, and all our members of this fantastic, friendly Forum for failing to gain your belief and trust in GC Admin's sense of duty and neutrality
     
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    • ARMANDII

      ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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      Well, it is posh poo, noisette:dunno::heehee:
       
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      • Nikolaos

        Nikolaos Total Gardener

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        Can you put forward any evidence to substantiate this claim?

        Nick
         
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        • Mike Allen

          Mike Allen Total Gardener

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          Ladies, Gentlemen and friends. Please.

          This thread, having started out as an ordinary exchange of thoughts, opinions and perhaps simply suggesting ways and means of exiting the EU. So be it. At least this appears to be a small freedom left to us, a rapidly diminishing, 'Freedom of speech'.

          Sadly IMO, much of the content of members comments have, in ways,deviated from the nucleus of the topic and so, so sadly become a slanging match. Since engaging in internet forums. I have always maintaned. Chatting, debating etc online is so different than do the same face to face. I must say. I as a 'simple'member have been shocked by the way this thread has gone. Thanks to our webmaster. This forum has facilities for members to report, complain etc. In private.

          Perhaps my comments on the broader aspect. The woman, Gina XXXX will no doubt be made a Dame. Example. Miss Chackerabarti stirred the much so much. Keep her quiet, make her a dame. Mr Bercow will probably end up with a Knighthood and the latest ed. of Encyclopedia Brittanica. How the courts can forbid the PM from leaving the EU without a deal. I find such a threat way out. Likewise. Having spent many days, hours in court. It has always been customary for the bench to quote the legal act etc, whereby the decsion of the courts findings have been implimented. Even in this Supreme Court adjudication, I haven't heard such mention. I have heard. It's the 'opinion' of this court.!!!!?????

          Please folks. Can a line be drawn under this. Please. No more mud slinging and swearing etc. Enjoy the friendship and your gardening.
           
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          • CanadianLori

            CanadianLori Total Gardener

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            I think admin should have dual GC citizenship. An i.d. with title and the one without....

            Oh, wait, I've never noticed any bullying, it would cost a lot of aggro to force admin to have two i.d.s and talking about cost, none of admin get any compensation. They even have to pay for their own hob nobs! What the heck do people want for free or close to it? Really???

            Shame on those who are critical of any admin posts. They are entitled to their opinions too.

            Sorry, I couldn't stop myself from putting my oar in the water. :redface:
             
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            • NigelJ

              NigelJ Total Gardener

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              Remembering back to my schooldays when I did political affairs and economics: it is the role of the Government to propose legislation, the role of Parliament to enact legislation and the role of the Judiciary to enforce the legislation. In all of this Parliament is supreme. That was the outcome of the English Civil War which decided whether the King or the people (as represented by a Parliament of elected members) ruled the country. The powers of the King (Perogatives) passed to the Government. As Lady Hale pointed out in the judgement: over 400 years ago the courts ruled that the King has only those perogatives allowed by the law of the land. In other words as set by Parliament.
              If the Government attempts to step beyond these perogatives it is the role of the Judiciary (Supreme Court) to prevent this. The Government attempted, by prorogation, with no good reason, to prevent Parliament from holding it to account and passing legislation; hence the decision.
              In the UK we have an unwritten constitution, made up of a pile of legal judgements, dating back to the 12th century, traditions and some legislation. The upshot of this decision could be a written constitution and a constitutional court; if any Government can actually draw one up and persuade Parliament to enact it.
              In many ways the judgement goes beyond Brexit in that it points out the limits of the Government's powers and emphasises the supremacy of Parliament.
              Where does this leave Brexit then? Up the fabled creek with no means of propulsion. The Government currently lacks a practical majority to push anything through Parliament and neither is there a reasonable likelihood that a general election would result in such a practical majority for any party. A second referendum would, probably, be no more clear cut than the first and what would the options be? The more options the less chance of a clear majority for any of them.
              Another extension, however distasteful, seems the most likely outcome; followed by a General Election.
              Perhaps the best answer would be for Parliament to pass the "deal" as it stands, with all it's problems and move on to negotiating a permanent settlement with the EU. This would allow the Government to move on from the current limbo and resume running the country, for better or worse, again.
               
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              • Jiffy

                Jiffy The Match is on Fire

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                Why is it legel and illegal to suspend the goverment, just show the laws are NOT clear!!!!!!!!!!!


                Now that they are to return what trouble are they now going to do
                 
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                • Fat Controller

                  Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                  The problem there @NigelJ is that passing the deal as it stands would then see it enacted in law, complete with the backstop that locks us in to the EU for eternity, without being a full member - and there would be nothing we could do to get out of it.

                  The other point is that, as has been mentioned on TV this morning, we don't have a written constitution in this country - so how can Boris have broken a law when it hasn't been written yet? The Supreme Court themselves made it clear that their judgement on this case would be an exception and should not be used to create a precedent - only, creating that precedent is unavoidable, as that is what our laws thrive and grow from; furthermore, the fact that they made that statement suggests to me that they have stepped over their remit.

                  The fact remains that the prorogation of parliament was made by the PM, on advice from his highest legal counsel, and given Her Majesty's assent. The only reason that it ended up in court was because the "elites" in this country had the money to be able to get it there. It has proved exactly what many people thought - if the little people don't vote the "correct" way, we will shout and scream and throw money at it until we get the answer we want. Much of this leads back to Soros funding, although considerable digging has to be done to find those sources - even Mr Steve Bray (or Dave Allen as his real name is) is paid £80 a day to stand and shout his "Stop Brexit" messages. Gina Miller - completely unelected, but here she is in the middle of our politics. It stinks worse than a sewerage farm.

                  We are in dark and dangerous times, and there is a growing swell for direct action of some sort or other - the largest I am seeing discussed is for this coming Saturday, being referred to as operation Zulu.

                  @CanadianLori - nobody can have two accounts as that is against the rules, and we are not above the rules (hence me reporting myself yesterday, following what was quite a serious allegation). I joined as a member, and remain a member - if I can not post as a member, then there is no point in me being here and giving my free time to do stuff under the bonnet.
                   
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                  • Loofah

                    Loofah Admin Staff Member

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                    PMQ's will be a shambles today... Lets make a drinking game of it - every time someone shouts 'Resign!' you have a drink..
                     
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                    • shiney

                      shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                      • shiney

                        shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                        It will be even more difficult as his plane isn't due to land until 11 a.m.!
                         
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                        • Loofah

                          Loofah Admin Staff Member

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                          • pete

                            pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                            I thought I heard a judge say that the "prologuing, prollogin, porologing, never happened"?

                            ("Suspension", a much better word, I can think of a few I'd like to suspend, and from somewhere fairly high.:biggrin:)

                            If that is the case:biggrin: how can Boris be held to account about something that didn't happen:scratch:
                             
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                            • Loofah

                              Loofah Admin Staff Member

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                              • ARMANDII

                                ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                                c
                                Yes please, does that mean you're buying, Loofah??..........mine's a double Chivas Regal:thumbsup:
                                 
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