Brexit -am I stupid or what

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by wiseowl, Dec 10, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Freddy

    Freddy Miserable git, well known for it

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2007
    Messages:
    9,461
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired - yay!
    Location:
    Bristol
    Ratings:
    +12,508
    In my previous post, I wasn’t trying to score points, just trying to illustrate that it never pays to generalise. When I look back, I suppose there are two events that really stick out. One occasion when I was able to save someone’s job, another occasion when I wasn’t. Both were very significant at the time, emotionally. And that’s the point. There are probably tens of thousands of stewards up and down the country, doing their best for their fellow workers. It’s very often a thankless task, and I sometimes wondered why I bothered, but I’m a great believer in workers being represented. One can of course point a finger at some of the ‘headliners’, but to generalise would be an injustice to all those that want to look after and protect those they represent. For all their failings, I think the unions, overall, have helped to raise the living standards of millions.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Fat Controller

      Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

      Joined:
      May 5, 2012
      Messages:
      26,222
      Gender:
      Male
      Occupation:
      Public Transport
      Location:
      At me 'puter, GCHQ Ashford Office, Middlesex
      Ratings:
      +48,880
      I didn't think for one second that you were @Freddy, sorry if I gave the impression that I thought that; and yes, there are many good shop stewards/union reps up and down the country, but currently there also seems to be many that are thoroughly disillusioned with some of the internal goings on of their unions, and how more emphasis seems to be being placed on political stuff rather than the stuff that is really important such as workers rights, where they have made such great strides in the past. If our unions got back to doing what they do best, I would rejoin (and will when they do - I actually have the form sitting in my desk drawer ready to go). The final straw for me was people at a Unite organised rally when Trump visited battering an old fella to the ground, just because he chose to support Trump. Personally, I think Trump is an eejit, but folks are entitled to support him if they wish -- to do that to an old guy just for his views was utterly wrong, and I wanted no part of it.

      I know of a few who have chucked the union, but will still go in and bat for fellow workers are workplace colleagues, and do a mighty fine job too.
       
      • Like Like x 2
      • Freddy

        Freddy Miserable git, well known for it

        Joined:
        Jul 15, 2007
        Messages:
        9,461
        Gender:
        Male
        Occupation:
        Retired - yay!
        Location:
        Bristol
        Ratings:
        +12,508
        Hiya.
        That was actually for @lolimac , I didn’t want her to think I was having a dig.
        On the broader point, I too would wish that unions would stick to internal matters. But is it not inevitable that politics get involved? If political events affect your members? Rightly or wrongly, unions will always have a political interest. I don’t have time for acts of intimidation, it’s despicable, but don’t judge a union based on the acts of individuals.
        I would also add...you said
        [QUOTE="Fat Controller, post: 1231233, member: 11510”] but currently there also seems to be many that are thoroughly disillusioned with some of the internal goings on of their unions, and how more emphasis seems to be being placed on political stuff[/QUOTE]

        When at GKN, formerly Airbus, I never experienced any of that :dunno:
         
        • Like Like x 2
        • Friendly Friendly x 1
        • Fat Controller

          Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

          Joined:
          May 5, 2012
          Messages:
          26,222
          Gender:
          Male
          Occupation:
          Public Transport
          Location:
          At me 'puter, GCHQ Ashford Office, Middlesex
          Ratings:
          +48,880
          Sorry @Freddy - wires crossed again :redface:

          Aye, I suppose that to a degree I can understand the political involvement, but latterly it seems that it has gone way beyond that and the union is a political animal first, and the members are merely there as an afterthought.

          Maybe it is an industry thing - our industry seems to have a lot of disillusioned reps, for whatever reason and that certainly doesn't help when we are seeing events such as those that I mentioned; sadly, that was one of quite a few very similar events at the time, and as I say it was the straw that broke the camels back for me - - other events were certainly local to me, some of which are ongoing with myself and others, but suffice to say that the union proved to be about as much good as the proverbial ashtray on a motorbike. As I say, I retain the form in my drawer ready to go - I work in a unionised industry and I also believe that there is strength in numbers, I just need to see some changes in the union and have them behaving as they were before.
           
          • Like Like x 1
          • Mike Allen

            Mike Allen Total Gardener

            Joined:
            Jan 4, 2014
            Messages:
            2,861
            Gender:
            Male
            Occupation:
            Retired. Plant Pathologist.
            Location:
            Eltham. SE. London
            Ratings:
            +6,097
            Undoubtedly the setting up of unions in times past, marked an important cross road in the then industrial world. Now the down trodden workers were allowed to have a representation from the groundforce, the workers. Prior to that. How dare you question, confront the BOSSES. In a way times were changing. Perhaps for researchers, taking time to compare history of the present time and era. Here in England. Thankfully much is owed to the giants of industry , especially in the North of England. The steel and mining industries, the vast ship building yards, industries. Credit where credit is due. Nevertheless, the Boss remained the boos and the humble worker was just that. Not simply a worker, but a slave. Need I say more. So along comes a kind of uprising. Workers Vs. Bosses. It hit the bosses hard, despite the following incurred hardships of the workers and their families. Times passed and conditions perhaps got better.
            Time passes so quickly. These, as they wre at the start, gatherings of workers, now they are called unions. Sadly IMHO the unions have been given too much rope. Now the unions are challeging the nation's government. The unions are now a political party.
             
            • Friendly Friendly x 2
            • Like Like x 1
            • shiney

              shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

              Joined:
              Jul 3, 2006
              Messages:
              61,004
              Gender:
              Male
              Occupation:
              Retired - Last Century!!!
              Location:
              Herts/Essex border. Zone 8b
              Ratings:
              +117,308
              In the past I have been a member of two unions. With the first one I got involved in running our local section but it was mainly social.

              The second one was a Closed Shop union (remember those?) and was made illegal 29 years ago.
              I attended most of the meetings that I was around for and supported most of what was done - but opposed it being a closed shop. It seemed wrong to have a union that was there to look after the rights of the union whilst not giving them the right to make their own decision about whether to join or not.

              It was 56 years ago when I caused trouble in the union when, on examining my union documents, I found out that my union subscription also included a 'political donation'. I kicked up a fuss about it and asked why I hadn't been asked whether I wished to 'donate'. I was told not to rock the boat (literally, as it was the National Union of Seamen :heehee:) and received a visit from two rather large gentlemen who gave me the message! It was rather late for them to do that as I had asked whilst receiving my stamps in my Seaman's Book with a room full of other seaman receiving the same, before we could go on leave. I asked for my contributions for the last year to be refunded (hence the visit from 'The Boys') but I understand that over 200 of the crew also asked for a refund. I wasn't allowed into any union meeting from then on!

              After that, as the boss of my own company, I always made sure that my staff (varied from 12 to 26 over the years) got the best deal possible and I always consulted with them before making any proposed changes. My staff were all told that they had the right to join the union but none of them ever did.

              I still support the idea of unions but, in my opinion, they have definitely become too political.
               
              • Like Like x 4
              • Agree Agree x 1
              • Loofah

                Loofah Admin Staff Member

                Joined:
                Feb 20, 2008
                Messages:
                12,393
                Gender:
                Male
                Location:
                Guildford
                Ratings:
                +21,174
                Well that's the speech out the way... who's up for an election? Everyone except the leaders of the opposition parties I expect!!
                 
                • Agree Agree x 3
                • Funny Funny x 1
                • ARMANDII

                  ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

                  Joined:
                  Jan 12, 2019
                  Messages:
                  48,096
                  Gender:
                  Male
                  Ratings:
                  +100,834
                  Well, Tom Watson was, yet again, absent from the front bench for the Queen's Speech, which is just further evidence any moderates in the Labour Party are being squeezed out. Boris actually pointed out that the Labour Party is being purged by the extremists, even calling McDonnell "Lenin":heehee:
                   
                  • Agree Agree x 1
                  • Funny Funny x 1
                  • lolimac

                    lolimac Total Gardener

                    Joined:
                    Feb 4, 2019
                    Messages:
                    1,479
                    Gender:
                    Female
                    Location:
                    East Riding of Yorkshire
                    Ratings:
                    +4,927
                    No worries Freddy...Maybe I did make sweeping statement ,I don't doubt the unions may well have helped many but they are a sore point with me after myself and hundreds of my colleagues were let down very badly.I too like to think I can see both sides to issues..but that was a touchy one.:blue thumb:
                     
                    • Like Like x 1
                    • Friendly Friendly x 1
                    • shiney

                      shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

                      Joined:
                      Jul 3, 2006
                      Messages:
                      61,004
                      Gender:
                      Male
                      Occupation:
                      Retired - Last Century!!!
                      Location:
                      Herts/Essex border. Zone 8b
                      Ratings:
                      +117,308
                      Only slightly off topic.

                      The Queen's Speech: in there was the proposition that for all future elections we must have photo I.D. It doesn't bother me as I have a driver's licence and a passport, but it doesn't help if I have a postal vote!
                       
                      • Agree Agree x 1
                      • Loofah

                        Loofah Admin Staff Member

                        Joined:
                        Feb 20, 2008
                        Messages:
                        12,393
                        Gender:
                        Male
                        Location:
                        Guildford
                        Ratings:
                        +21,174
                        We've been trialling photo ID for voting for a few years in Woking. It seems to be generally issue-free but yes, not sure about the postal vote works in this case!
                         
                        • Like Like x 2
                        • shiney

                          shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

                          Joined:
                          Jul 3, 2006
                          Messages:
                          61,004
                          Gender:
                          Male
                          Occupation:
                          Retired - Last Century!!!
                          Location:
                          Herts/Essex border. Zone 8b
                          Ratings:
                          +117,308
                          The suggestion is that the local authority should give photo I.D. free (where are they going to get the money?) but nothing yet about postal votes. :scratch:
                           
                        • KFF

                          KFF Total Gardener

                          Joined:
                          May 30, 2017
                          Messages:
                          3,741
                          Gender:
                          Male
                          Location:
                          Worcestershire
                          Ratings:
                          +5,890
                          Well they'd have to give me mine because I haven't got anything as I don't drive and I can't afford a passport.
                           
                          • Like Like x 1
                          • shiney

                            shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

                            Joined:
                            Jul 3, 2006
                            Messages:
                            61,004
                            Gender:
                            Male
                            Occupation:
                            Retired - Last Century!!!
                            Location:
                            Herts/Essex border. Zone 8b
                            Ratings:
                            +117,308
                            Someone has suggested that people pay for them but I don't think that would work. It goes back to the argument about everyone carrying I.D. :noidea:
                             
                            • Agree Agree x 2
                            • Loofah

                              Loofah Admin Staff Member

                              Joined:
                              Feb 20, 2008
                              Messages:
                              12,393
                              Gender:
                              Male
                              Location:
                              Guildford
                              Ratings:
                              +21,174
                              Just to keep this (quite interesting to me!) sideline away from the Brexit table I'll create a new thread...
                              Voter photo ID
                               
                              • Like Like x 2
                              Loading...
                              Thread Status:
                              Not open for further replies.

                              Share This Page

                              1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
                                By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
                                Dismiss Notice