Isn't any peat in compost an environmental no-no?

Discussion in 'Compost, Fertilisers & Recycling' started by Lone Northern Lass, May 22, 2020.

  1. pete

    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2005
    Messages:
    47,718
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Mid Kent
    Ratings:
    +84,360
    I dont think so, I'll have a look tomorrow.
     
  2. Sheal

    Sheal Total Gardener

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2011
    Messages:
    35,546
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Beauly, Inverness-shire. Zone 9a
    Ratings:
    +52,311
    Thanks. :thumbsup:
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • gks

      gks Total Gardener

      Joined:
      Feb 28, 2021
      Messages:
      1,508
      Gender:
      Male
      Occupation:
      Production Manager
      Location:
      Cumbria
      Ratings:
      +4,427
      So, if peat extraction is very damaging to our uplands, how do you feel about industrial windfarms being built on pristine peat bogs?

      The new Shetland windfarm is to be built on pristine peat lands and it is estimated they will need 1.4 million cubic metres of aggregates to build the access roads. Each turbine needs 2,500 tons of concrete for the foundations. There will have to be some considerable extraction, disturbance to the peat lands to access and build these turbines.

      Nothing to do with gardeners, yet the construction of windfarms on peatlands seems to be acceptable.

      Dismay over peat slippage ‘environmental catastrophe’ in Co Donegal | UTV | ITV News
       
      • Informative Informative x 3
      • Agree Agree x 2
      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

        Joined:
        May 5, 2012
        Messages:
        26,220
        Gender:
        Male
        Occupation:
        Public Transport
        Location:
        At me 'puter, GCHQ Ashford Office, Middlesex
        Ratings:
        +48,873
        Not to mention the destruction of other lands when they are disposed of - particularly the turbine blades which are wholly non-recyclable and are currently being buried. Might be worth starting a new thread about the pros and cons of renewable energy?
         
        • Agree Agree x 4
        • Like Like x 2
        • gks

          gks Total Gardener

          Joined:
          Feb 28, 2021
          Messages:
          1,508
          Gender:
          Male
          Occupation:
          Production Manager
          Location:
          Cumbria
          Ratings:
          +4,427
          Yes, I agree a new thread on this topic would be very interesting.
          I tend to find those who want to see peat being totally banned for the use in the horticultural sector very vocal. Yet when these monster turbines are being built on the peat lands, the silence is deafening.

          I am all up for a debate on peat alternatives. But I do feel the horticultural industry is being used as scapegoat on the usage of peat, so the energy companies can do as they wish.
           
          • Like Like x 3
          • Agree Agree x 2
          • shiney

            shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

            Joined:
            Jul 3, 2006
            Messages:
            60,998
            Gender:
            Male
            Occupation:
            Retired - Last Century!!!
            Location:
            Herts/Essex border. Zone 8b
            Ratings:
            +117,297
            I certainly need some renewable energy :old:. The old lot has almost worn out over the last century! :sad:
             
            • Like Like x 2
            • Funny Funny x 1
            • Friendly Friendly x 1
            • Logan

              Logan Total Gardener

              Joined:
              May 27, 2017
              Messages:
              14,715
              Gender:
              Female
              Occupation:
              housewife
              Location:
              redditch Worcester
              Ratings:
              +43,795
              I haven't read all the posts on this thread.
              I think that the compost that i use has a reduced amount of peat but mixed with composted material and a John innes in it.
              Last year the GC run out of this one because of the first lockdown, so had to have a peat based one made by the same company, I was so surprised but had to use it because there wasn't another any alternative. But I didn't like it, it took a lot of water to wet it and I don't think that my plants did so well. I've used peatless ones before and it wasn't good.
               
              • Like Like x 1
              • Informative Informative x 1
              • stumorphmac

                stumorphmac cymbidist

                Joined:
                Dec 8, 2010
                Messages:
                337
                Gender:
                Male
                Occupation:
                RETIRED GARDENER
                Location:
                Powys
                Ratings:
                +212
                Trouble is with Jhon Innes these days is not the peat its the soil , its not real loam made from stacked turves it more like any topsoil that has been through a soil shredder and it is too fine in texture.
                in The days before is retired i worked for a well known horticultue establishment where they were testing differnt medium for plant growth and guess which was No1 ... PEAT
                 
                • Like Like x 3
                • Agree Agree x 2
                • gks

                  gks Total Gardener

                  Joined:
                  Feb 28, 2021
                  Messages:
                  1,508
                  Gender:
                  Male
                  Occupation:
                  Production Manager
                  Location:
                  Cumbria
                  Ratings:
                  +4,427
                  There was many issues last year with compost, the reason being, demand was out stripping supply. I assume most of you had issue's with green bin collections during lockdown, we had no collections in our constituency for nearly 3 months. A lot of the peat alternatives were not ready available during the lockdown period and beyond, not everyone was prepared to work in keeping the supply chain going.

                  Last year proved how flawed the peat alternatives are. No green bin collections for weeks on end, no coir being imported. If it wasn't for peat, many gardeners would not of being able to enjoy a growing season.
                   
                  • Friendly Friendly x 1
                  • noisette47

                    noisette47 Total Gardener

                    Joined:
                    Jan 25, 2013
                    Messages:
                    5,862
                    Gender:
                    Female
                    Location:
                    Lot-et-Garonne, Aquitaine
                    Ratings:
                    +13,962
                    I see that the RHS has changed it's tune on peat for horticultural use. I distinctly remember the initial eco band-wagon jumping and then the trials they did which proved conclusively that there is simply no effective substitute for peat in growing media. Now it's u-turning back to peat-free :dunno:. RHS peat policy. Personal experience bears out their trial results.....Until the producers over here come up with a correctly-manufactured alternative, I'll be buying bags of peat and mixing my own compost :paladin:
                    Plants and seeds here are way too expensive to gamble on them surviving in badly-chopped wood-waste mixed with manure..:sad:
                     
                    • Like Like x 6
                    • Agree Agree x 2
                    • Logan

                      Logan Total Gardener

                      Joined:
                      May 27, 2017
                      Messages:
                      14,715
                      Gender:
                      Female
                      Occupation:
                      housewife
                      Location:
                      redditch Worcester
                      Ratings:
                      +43,795
                      We had no problems with our bins being emptied in the first lockdown and still don't.

                      Also I know more people were growing their own food then.
                       
                      • Like Like x 1
                      • pete

                        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

                        Joined:
                        Jan 9, 2005
                        Messages:
                        47,718
                        Gender:
                        Male
                        Occupation:
                        Retired
                        Location:
                        Mid Kent
                        Ratings:
                        +84,360
                        I have to say I believe that peat is probably the best growing medium we have.

                        But surely it isn't beyond them these days to come up with a loam/ soil based mix that works for pot plants, maybe with just a small amount of peat and other additives.

                        After all, things grow reasonably well in my garden and the soils is clay based.
                         
                        • Agree Agree x 4
                        • Like Like x 1
                        • blackstart

                          blackstart Gardener

                          Joined:
                          Jul 31, 2010
                          Messages:
                          72
                          Gender:
                          Male
                          Location:
                          Warwickshire
                          Ratings:
                          +105
                          When I worked in the horticultural industy I remember reading a report by ADAS (I think, it was a few years ago) that said the difficulties lay in the fertilisers used in the compost. They were specifically manufactured to work with the chemical charictaristics of peat and it was proving very difficult to get them to work with peat substitutes.
                          Blackstart
                           
                          • Informative Informative x 3
                          • Like Like x 1
                          • noisette47

                            noisette47 Total Gardener

                            Joined:
                            Jan 25, 2013
                            Messages:
                            5,862
                            Gender:
                            Female
                            Location:
                            Lot-et-Garonne, Aquitaine
                            Ratings:
                            +13,962
                            There's also the water retention and distribution qualities...coir was going to be the next big thing, until it proved to be extremely difficult to manage the watering.
                             
                            • Like Like x 3
                            • Agree Agree x 1
                            • gks

                              gks Total Gardener

                              Joined:
                              Feb 28, 2021
                              Messages:
                              1,508
                              Gender:
                              Male
                              Occupation:
                              Production Manager
                              Location:
                              Cumbria
                              Ratings:
                              +4,427
                              I had 1800 ton of top soil delivered in to me late August last year, the site was only 5 miles away so the haulage element was more than acceptable. The issue with a more loam based compost like John Innes compost is, less volume compared to a peat reduced MPC. If a grower purchase's a full artic of a peat reduced compost without loam in the mixture, they would get approximately 90,000 litres of compost on an artic. Now if I was to make the compost like John Innes, they would only get approximately 33,000 litres of compost. So you would need nearly 3 artic loads to get the same volume, more trucks more expense.

                              Its a bit like the coir, peat free, meets the criteria for phasing out peat. The question is, have I decreased the carbon foot print or increased it when its having to be shipped thousand's of miles?

                              Here is a mouth watering number. It was reported in 2019 the whole horticultural sector used 4.2 million cubic metres of compost. It was also reported that year we seen the peat content dropped below 50% for the first time. Now if everyone is using a MPC then an artic can carry 90 cubic metre's per load that relates to approximately 130 artic loads of compost is being delivered and used every day. if we went down a more soil based compost your going to need 350 artic loads per day to move the same volume.

                              I use loam to make JI but also Leek & Onion compost, Chrysanthemum compost etc etc. You could never pack these in bales like they sell MPC in B&Q they would weigh nearly 100kg per 125L bale, we would end up growing hernia's with bags of compost that heavy.:loll:
                               
                              • Like Like x 2
                              • Informative Informative x 1
                              Loading...

                              Share This Page

                              1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
                                By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
                                Dismiss Notice