Heat pumps.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by pete, Oct 19, 2021.

  1. roders

    roders Total Gardener

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    I remember when we had one of these.
    Wish I still had it.;)

    875F8129-C925-4E54-B528-4E482122E3D2.jpeg
     
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    • pete

      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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      Would make a great backup heater for a £16,000 heat pump system. ;)
       
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      • JR

        JR Chilled Gardener

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        It's worth looking at 'skill builder' on utube. Roger explains why he wouldn't fit a heat pump in his own house even though he installs them in others properties.
         
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        • noisette47

          noisette47 Total Gardener

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          That woud be good as back-up, with one of these... bucheron.jpg :biggrin:
           
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          • shiney

            shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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            Most houses don't have sufficient ground for Ground Source and they say that with the added expense of of installation on replacement it could cost between 20k and 30+k. :hate-shocked:

            Air Source is cheaper but would still need added costs such as larger radiators and the building and making good. General estimates tend to be 10k - 15k.

            The government Incentive is not as good as it sounds as it paid in instalments over seven years but can exceed the 5k mentioned in the publicity in certain circumstances.

            The Incentive is not available for new builds :scratch:

            Underfloor heating is definitely more efficient but it would be a bit difficult with my concrete floors :heehee:

            The external Air Source unit (think it's a condenser) should be placed at least 12" away from a wall (there are other criteria as well). It is best to have air flow around it and if attached to a wall there is also the problem of vibration from the unit and the annoying noise generated in that way. For suburban houses with very small gardens there are also possible problems with the siting of them as they must be a certain distance from the neighbours' property. This can vary from 1 metre in England to something like 5 metres in NI.
             
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            • Sheal

              Sheal Total Gardener

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              Taking into consideration the lack of efficiency, noise, available home space and upheaval to change to this system as well as the high cost. Wouldn't it make more sense to just fit electric radiators?
               
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              • JWK

                JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                This is what many new builds use, if a house is properly insulated and sealed then a tiny amount of electric will keep it snug.
                 
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                • JAS

                  JAS Gardener

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                    Last edited: Oct 22, 2021
                  • shiney

                    shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                    With all the new builds going on round here (and I suppose in a lot of the country) I don't think proper insulation is a priority. Having spoken to some of the people involved, in the build of one nearby area with over 5,000 new dwellings, the only priority seems to be 'get them finished as quickly as possible'. Two of the four storey blocks have already had to have their cladding replaced :rolleyespink: - and these are new builds :doh:. The plans have been on the books for some years and I guess nobody seemed to think of looking at changes in the laws and what would be heat efficient.
                     
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                    • Loofah

                      Loofah Admin Staff Member

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                      New build are ridiculous warm! Huge amounts of insulation go in but I confess I had no idea about leccy heaters. I knew some used forced air
                       
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                      • JWK

                        JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                        All new builds have to be tested for air tightness, and with the extra amount of insulation these days means they stay cosy. They also have to have solar panels for hot water.
                         
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                        • pete

                          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                          Maybe my imagination but when I first had the cavity wall insulation put in I felt an immediate difference.
                          But 10yrs on and I don't seem to feel so warm any more.
                           
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                          • JAS

                            JAS Gardener

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                            New builds are generally insulated to a pretty decent standard. Normally the heat losses overall are in the order of 40 watts per sqm. Compare that to stock from 15-20 years ago which was often 80 watts per sq M and the older stuff much more sometimes.

                            New builds are supposed to be tested for air tightness. Normally pressurised to 50pa and the air leakage measured. The air leakage rate is stated in litres per sec per sqm.

                            The problem is when they are throwing buildings up en masse and not all get tested. Air leakage is very much dependent on good building practice. Same with insulation, its not unheard of to find a house or flat with missing insulation as its not been installed or only partially installed.

                            For housing all designs need to achieve a pass using SAP (Standard Assessment Procedure) where the building is compared against a baseline design using approved software. So for example say its a 50m2 flat being designed the software will use the same floor area, it will use a specific area of glazing based on floor area and specific U values for walls etc. It will also base the energy usage on a specific heating system etc and a specific air tightness level. The actual building is then compared against the model and either passes or fails. Over the years the performance levels that have to be achieved have been lowered by making the conditions to be achieved more stringent in the base model.

                            Electric heating sometimes works ok in flats but may need other technology to make it work such as PV and/ or improved U values or lower q50 (air leakage rates). I used to do these and the commercial equivalent (SBEM) but only if Architects were struggling to get a pass etc. I stopped about 7 or 8 years ago as the government wanted people to become registered etc and I didn't do (or particularly want to do) hundreds of these per year. The registration scheme was really geared to companies doing this full time.
                             
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                            • john558

                              john558 Total Gardener

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                              I think as we get older we feel the cold more, I know I do. Perhaps our blood is thinner.

                              Just chuck an extra Hessian Sack over your shoulders Pete:biggrin:
                               
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                              • shiney

                                shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                                Certainly agree there. My personal cavity insulation is called hot food. :heehee:

                                We have cavity insulation, loft insulation (not up to the current recommended levels), double glazing, no drafts and solar panels but still use a lot of power as we liked to remain warm and comfy. :old: :)
                                 
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