Electric cars.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by pete, Apr 7, 2021.

  1. shiney

    shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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    Hydrogen? They would need to be able to produce the hydrogen from renewable energy before it can become remotely competitive.
     
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    • Jocko

      Jocko Guided by my better half.

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      As they are currently doing in a large way in Orkney. They use the hydrogen to power the ferries while in port. Using it while on the voyage requires recertification of the ship's engineers but it could do the job admirably.
       
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      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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        It would appear that hydrogen is one of the best bets currently - that is not to say that BEV's are not part of the mix of course.
         
      • shiney

        shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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        Unfortunately all the production model Hydrogen cars are much more expensive than electric ones. :sad:
         
      • pete

        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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        I thought hydrogen cars were electric.:biggrin:
         
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        • shiney

          shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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          They are but the batteries that run them are fuelled by an on board fuel cell and not by charging up externally. There is a hydrogen tank on board. (Simplified) Oxygen is taken from the out side air, mixed with the hydrogen causing a chemical reaction which produces electrical energy, heat and water - so no pollutants from the car. I don't know how much pollutant is produced when making the hydrogen or the fuel cell (very reinforced tank).

          So, hydrogen goes into the tank (supposed to take about five minutes to fill it at a 'petrol station' at an unknown, by me, cost), some is mixed with oxygen to produce electricity which goes both to the engine and to the storage battery. The battery is considerably smaller than for a BEV (Battery Electric Vehicle) and the cars are called FCEV (Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle - and not Fat Controller Electric Vehicle :heehee:).

          [​IMG]
           
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          • Black Dog

            Black Dog Gardener of useful things

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            Personally, I am not a big fan of hydrogen.
            The overall loss of converting electricity into hydrogen, transporting it, and then converting it back to electrical power makes it a really bad solution.
            Additionally, most hydrogen produced at the moment comes from cracking natural gas, which makes it even worse than just burning the gas directly in a combustion engine.

            A third point is the tendency of hydrogen to create an explosive atmosphere with oxygen and to migrate through most materials.

            All in all, I see it as more feasible in larger engines than your normal everyday car. A niche, occupied by diesel at the moment.
             
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            • shiney

              shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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              As mentioned before - it would need to be produced from renewable energy.

              Most people are driving around with highly combustible fuel in their tanks :noidea:. I'm not too keen on the safety of electric batteries in BEV's either.

              At least what comes out of a horse won't kill you. When I was a lad...... :roflol:
               
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              • pete

                pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                What ever you use seems to have lots of big problems.
                Most seem to have more disadvantages than the one advantage they are trying to achieve.
                 
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                • shiney

                  shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                  I just leave these things up to my chauffeur :noidea:
                   
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                  • Black Dog

                    Black Dog Gardener of useful things

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                    True, but none of these seep out of a defective fuel line, collect at the roof of the garage and explode when you flip the light switch. Hydrogen however....
                     
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                    • JWK

                      JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                      We should learn from history that hydrogen is a bad choice, those 1930s airships didn't do too well.
                       
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                      • pete

                        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                        I'm sure @shiney remembers the R101 and the Hindenburg.


                        I actually wrote this about 3hrs ago and didn't push post.:biggrin:
                         
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                        • pete

                          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                          But you could say the same for LPG and all kinds of combustible fuel.
                          I believe just charging a battery gives of hydrogen.

                          It's how you handle it that counts.

                          Bloke from the water board saying there is no way we can fix every leak, we must always expect to lose 20%.

                          Imagine the problems we would have if he was running the gas board.
                           
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                          • Jiffy

                            Jiffy The Match is on Fire

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                            Back to the furture, nuclear car, must be true i seen it on tv
                             
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