"Organics" is a con

Cookie monster has put up a link on another thread about controling pests
ile copy and paste the link for you
http://www.gardenadvice.co.uk/howto/pests/weaval-vine/index.html
read the last bit about
Grow 'trap plants'

 

The organic lobby has little impact on taking off chemicals from the market because they are not organic. Its more to do with a whole range of chemicals used in many products being on a hit list and slowly being taken off the market by the EU legislaters as being harmful to the person or the environment through its manufacture. Creosote as an example. Anyone involved in the paint or chemical industry will tell you the same. On the whole this is a good thing and can bring consumer benefits eg water based paint and woodstain in preference to solvent based. Former being more pleasant to use and dries quicker shortening the job.

I have an annoyance with people who say that organic tastes better than non organic and will pay highly for organic seeds to grow. My opinion is that 'home grown' tastes better than shop bought because of freshenss and variety chosen for taste rather than being ready all at once for efficient harvesting.

Organics can go too far and create an us and them culture. All youre trying to do is enjoy a hobby that has the benefit of satisfaction and food production and dont need to have the stigma of asking for below the counter in organic chemicals while every one looks at you.

 

An interesting thread this one and one that could go on and on due to ones opinion on the subject.

My view of it is; it seems to have got out of hand due to ones perception of what is organic, plus we don't seem to have a level playing field!!

For example; 'commercial enterprises' work to different rules from the amateur gardener.

Generally the 'amateur' will try their utmost NOT to use chemicals at all, and for those that do, they will use them as a curative measure (i.e. the problem is there) whereas a commercial enterprise will take 'preventative measures' (i.e.the problem is not necessarily there)

If my memory serves me correctly all this 'organic' issue reared its head quite a few years ago when I think it was the 'Which' magazine raised the issue of pesticide residues on fruit & veg and chemicals washing into waterways and killing off fish and feeding water plant life to such an extent it was adversely affecting wildlife.

Quite rightly 'governments' legislated to have the use of 'chemicals' reduced, not 'banned' as some people think, hence even today a commercial enterprise holding all the necessary licenses CAN still use chemicals and still consider themselves to be an 'organic' producer.

Then there are those people who beat the drum on the subject and will only buy' organic labelled' goods and are listened too resulting in the wrong impression being given to gardeners like me.

I will admit to using 'chemicals' on occasions but not always, meaning some years I don't use any!

Can the 'organic commercial company say the same thing................I doubt it!!..........but in the eyes of the 'do gooder' I am NOT an 'ORGANIC' gardener................. but if commerce puts a label on a product deeming it 'organic' they are 'organic producers!! (expletive!expletive!)

I have gardened for over forty years and have seen some dangerous chemicals that were once available to me taken off the market, and quite rightly so, yet the 'commercial organic gardener' have access to chemical products that we the amateur gardener can't get because it is under license, is this fair?

I could go on and on about this but at the end of the day 'the do gooders' with their limited knowledge on the subject will win the day,making the saying;

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing' quite true!!

Sorry about my rant but the subject can anger me at times! at least here in GC the subject is taken more objectively i.e. we can air our points of view based on knowledge not hearsay!

 

Tee Gee.
Spot on.
Don't worry though. Very soon the PC Brigade and the 'Elf and Safety lot will ban private gardening without a licence and an annual test. All that dirt is very dangerous, and as for all those pointy tools....it's about time Gordon did something about it. I guess that a garden tax will be the start.

 

Part of the reason that many pesticides have been recently withdrawn is down to the EU reeclassifiying them and therfore requiering the manufactures to submit many hundreds of pages of scientific reports etc.

For many products with a small market this is unn economic for the manufacturer therfore they simply stop producing them and after a cut off period withdraw stock from sale.

The majority of recently withdrawn chemicals were not withdrawn on health grounds but on cost of ree submitting ( even some of the very effective but possibly dangerouse profeshional use organophosphate ones).

Personally Ill never be organic, I like the easiyest and most productive way of doing things and for me that is often by carefull use chemicals.

Home grown in my mind is knowing that ive grown it and what if anything ive sprayed it with, it doesnt negate to no use of chemicals.

 

This is the ethos of organic farming, The term 'organic' is best thought of as referring to the concept of the farm as an organism, in which all the component parts - the soil minerals, organic matter, micro-organisms, insects, plants, animals and humans - interact to create a coherent and stable whole.
The key characteristics of organic farming include:
protecting the long term fertility of soils by maintaining organic matter levels, encouraging soil biological activity, and careful mechanical intervention;
providing crop nutrients indirectly using relatively insoluble nutrient sources which are made available to the plant by the action of soil micro-organisms;
nitrogen self-sufficiency through the use of legumes and biological nitrogen fixation, as well as effective recycling of organic materials including crop residues and livestock manures;
weed, disease and pest control relying primarily on crop rotations, natural predators, diversity, organic manuring, resistant varieties and limited (preferably minimal) thermal, biological and chemical intervention;
the extensive management of livestock, paying full regard to their evolutionary adaptations, behavioural needs and animal welfare issues with respect to nutrition, housing, health, breeding and rearing;
careful attention to the impact of the farming system on the wider environment and the conservation of wildlife and natural habitats.

Sounds good to me but like every system there are always people who will exploit it for their own agenda and take short cuts usually to make profit, the concept is correct I don't consider myself to be a middle class twit because I believe it.

 

Good morning all.I thought i`d catch up on GC this morning as i`m not at work and i must say i`ve enjoyed this thread.
Last night i brought a cut and come again lettuce from the gh into the kitchen to make a bit of salad to go with our tea and luckily spotted quite a bit of greenfly before i munched it.I flicked them off and chucked the leaves in the bowl.(i didn`t wash them cos i don`t like limp lettuce)
Well,maybe i should have done without lettuce last night and placed it back in the gh and sprayed it and everything else that`s in there with insecticide?Just to be sure.
Well, call me wocha like but i`d sooner have a few greenfly in my belly as a dose of whatever`s in that bottle.
After all, greenfly`s are GREEN and like Dylan said;"You don`t need a wheather man to know which way the wind blows".

 

..........and there I was, thinking being organic was easy:(.

I'm currently planning out my garden for when my new house is built and have all these ideals about being as green and as enviro friendly as possible.:thumb:

I was very interested in Master's comments about growing natural deterants, I'd like to talk to you in more depth about this. But will this type of planting keep away the desirable insects too as I'm looking to develop my garden to attract a wide varity of wildlife. My kitchen garden will be fairly seperate from the rest of my garden, but I want to keep the mosquitto population down from the social areas.

 

Some quite interesting recipes here >
http://www.frenchgardening.com/tech.html?pid=3164873867231346
and here>
http://gardengal.net/page11.html

 

I don't have time to get into this in depth, but I'd like to add another voice of support for what walnut said. And add that it's a pity that the term "organic" is so misused and misunderstood. It's good that the environmental message is becoming more widely accepted but unfortunate that that leads to a lot of people who don't know what they're talking about, talking about it!

 

It would be wonderful to grow crops,especially those whose life and or livelyhood depended on without using either artificial fertilizers, fungicides or insecticides.

Look at the saving there would be, no money spent on unnecessary nasty old chemicals and the crops would grow tall, disease free and without damage from insects etc.

Also like Elainefiz, I cut an Iceberg lettuce which was growing under a cloche, it had not been touched by human hand since it was planted. Neither had it been sprayed with anything or had any fertilizers applied, no nasty old tap water either, only rain water from a barrell. I grow all my lettuce in the back garden under cloches to keep the rain off as Iceberg types easily rot if the foilage is wetted, also the sparrows tear them to pieces!

When I started to take off the outer leaves, there was lots of greenfly on them, next I found a large slug, next an earwig tumbled out followed by a woodlouse, nothing more appeared.

And the lettuce was deliicous, much crisper than what we had been buying up to then in the supermarket!

cherrio

 

Wow,I thought this thread had died long ago.

My concern when posting this topic wasn't to criticise people who grow organically at all , but just to highlight that some of the "organic" products are just as dangerous as non organic ones such as my personal "bete noir" Bordeaux Mixture.

That's all.