Beetroot, beans, parsnips, carrots, capascums and sweet corn

Hi.
I'm a newbie to this site - and a newbie to gardening really.
Not a youngster - but never had a garden of my own before.
I live in UK, moved last July to Clacton-on-Sea - so now I live by the sea - great!
And got enough garden, at last, to have a small veggie patch.
I AM a veggie, actually - and eat a lot of the above. Now I want to start growing my own!
I've already got rhubarb growing in part of it - had most of them up now (delicious!)
I've checked out some tips on growing the above. I want the above 'cos that's what I eat a lot of! (Not so interested in potatoes or tomatoes - nor cabbages, cucumbers or lettuces either!).
I see that container/pot growing is advisable to start off most of these - to plant in the Spring from seed into pots (or kitchen roll tubes - of which I use plenty!).
Spring would be better for me - as my garden is still in turmoil right now, really - got contractors in doing external work.

I'm VERY big on re-cycling; I have a composter ... and into it goes:-
all my veg peel, rinds and similar, fruit cores, fruit rinds and similar, banana skins aplenty, egg shells, floor sweepings (but NOT from carpets, don't like them!), tea bags, some paper waste (suitably torn up), dead weed and similar material (I don't have any grass). My flower borders seem to like all this stuff!
I have plenty of, mainly clay and earthenware, plant pots (big ones!) bequeathed to me by previous owner.

My soil seems to have quite a bit of clay. But on the beach (which is just opposite my house) is no shortage of fine sand and, of course, sea-weed.
I don't have a VAST amount of veggie patch - and I live alone, so it's not like I need to feed a whole family. Ideally, I'd like to get crops throughout the year - but maybe that's asking too much? I don't want a greenhouse, and I'm not keen on seed tray planters - they look a bit unsightly to me, and I have an aesthetically planned garden (I'm an artist). I will be getting a cat - who will have a rooftop 'cat kennel' with litter tray. I've been advised: best way to dispose of the cat litter might be onto the veggie patch also?
I'll also be getting a tortoise (not yet sure which species). I will be making a low fenced off tortoise garden for him/her ... but that will not be open to the veggie patch (although, again, some advise disposing of tortoise dirts onto the veggie patch also might be good idea). Not sure.

How to go about it all? START planning now - even if not to start planting things till Spring. Any advice? Thanks.

edwardtheconfessor

 

Hello and welcome to GC.

Sorry I can't advise on most of the veg you want, as I've never grown it. I've done beans though, they're easy enough. What sort of beans do you plan to grow?

Good advice, after all, what's a spot of toxoplasmosis between friends.

 

Great sunshine hours in Clacton - which should help

Beach sand is likely to contain salt, which is poisonous to plants, so either wash it thoroughly, or use something else!

Spring is the time that it is difficult to have fresh vegetables - the so called "hungry gap". We are self sufficient on Veg for about 10 months of the year. It is difficult to be self sufficient on a very small area; you mention you have a small plot in which case you might like to read up about the "Square foot gardening" method of high-volume vegetable production.

Absolutely not. Best to take any other advice from that friend with a pinch of salt! Don't put any "waste" from meat-eating animals onto your vegetable patch as there is risk of transmission of diseases that effect humans too. Personally I wouldn't put them in compost heap or on ornamental borders either as you will be weeding them, and kids may play in them / pick up things and put them in their mouth etc. "waste" from herbivores is fine, so that will include the Tortoise - dunno how "productive" they are in that department though?!

My recommendation would be that you get "The Vegetable and Herb Expert" book by Dr D. G. Hessayon. Concise book that just gives you planting distances, times to sow / reap, and so on. Its not a how-to book, but rather a reference, but IMHO its invaluable. The how-to you can find on the internet, ask here, or buy whatever book is available in your local store. If you happen to find one I would recommend books by John Harrison, he has a very readable writing style, and his books are very suitable for beginners.

Make sure you adopt a crop rotation (that's covered in "The Vegetable and Herb Expert" )

 

Well, I prefer butter beans. How easy are they? Runner beans: a) not keen
b) don't want to have those sticks and long climbing plants. French beans: any better in that regard (+less stringy!)?. Haricot beans would be good (I eat a lot of those!) ... or broad beans?

Okay, getting message loud and clear - won't do it!

 

A lot of helpful advice here, Kristen: a lot to think about. I only thought about the sand because a) read on one site that some of these plants I mentioned need a sandy soil b) there's a lot of it about (here!). c) thought it might help counteract the clay content a bit. Hadn't thought about the salt content. Good point. But I DO want to use natural aids to the gardening as far as possible. I'd like my veg to be as organic as possible. I've read that sea-weed essence is good for some of these plants ??
Thanks for all the advice!

 

I think that's easily achievable, in practice. I'm not adverse to using chemicals, but I am "shy" about using them on food crops. In practice I almost never do ... I tollerate some damage by bugs, and over-plant to still have sufficient crop, only time I use chemicals is when the whole harvest is threatened, and that turns out (over the last 7 years we've been here) to have been almost never. But having said that, I was happy to put Roundup weedkiller on the whole plot at the get-go to give me a flying start.

You seem quite fussy on a number of point regarding the visual-clues of growing your vegetables, I think that will seriously hamper what you can grow ... I've seen some very smart vegetable gardens - the ones at East Ruston Old Vicarage are indeed a picture - but the majority, take allotments for example, are tidy, function but above all highly productive.

Wanting to both learn how to grow vegetables and make an artisticly pleasing design is increasing the challenge - I'm not anti, per se, but personally I think it is critical that in the first year or two that beginners have success, otherwise they may be put off the whole idea. I always advise that Experiment (with weird varieties, or vegetables that are troublesome to grow, or things that you have not tried before) carries higher chance of failure, or disappointment - I've grown things, spent many hours, and then at harvest I, and the whole family, have gone "Is that it?"!! - best to avoid that early on

Rule 1: grow what you like to eat. That way, in the early stages, you will be producing things that you want and enjoy. Crops that don't preform well, whilst you are gaining experience, won't be too much of a let down - whereas if you put hours and hours into growing something that you don't particularly like I reckon you will be a lot more disheartened with any failures - and I think that can be very off-putting for a newbie.

Rule 2: grow for flavour. Over time choose varieties that you like. Might be something that you bought in the supermarket / green grocers that was labelled with the variety, or something you trialled, but above all continue to grow a robust standard variety whilst you trial and are sure that the alternative is a marked improvement. Supermarkets sell varieties that are easy for farmers to grow (e.g. they all ripen at once) and don't get bruised during transport and handling, in your own garden you have none of those problems so can grow purely on taste - Tomatoes with thin skins, for example - you might find you like them!

Rule 3: grow crops that are expensive in the shops and/or crop well. Runner beans are a good example (I know you don't like them!) because the produce an abundant crop from a small area. They are expensive in the shops because of the labour involved in picking them. Likewise Raspberries and Strawberries (much tastier varieties available for the home grower too)

 

WOW! Kristen, you go out of your way to be helpful! As I know nothing (really), I am always willing to take advice from an expert - even though the final decisions will, of course, be mine alone.

You say 'grow what you like'. No point in growing what you DON'T like (duh!).
I listed at the title head of this thread what I eat a lot of and enjoy. Runner beans, I'm afraid, are just too 'stringy' for my taste (I mentioned other kinds of beans I'd like to grow in reply to 'clueless'). As you maybe appreciate, for a vegetarian/vegan, beans (combined with a cereal of some kind) are an essential source of protein. I could 'live with' having a few sticks - if neatly arranged!

I suppose I could try growing oats (I do eat a lot of porridge and museli), bu I think one really needs a decent sized field to grow grain crops like that? And rice needs a VERY wet and rather tropical climate? (plus terraces for which I don't have the space - obviously) - unless there are other kinds of rice - or other cereals - that can be grown more suitably to my space and conditions? (By the way - I DO have a bit more than one square foot to play with ... but part of that, of course, is taken up by the rhubarb - which I DO enjoy eating!).

I thought about growing groundnuts (peanuts) .. which I also eat a lot of (all nuts, actually) and also give to the birds - problem is: they take so long to shell!! Obviously, I'm not gonna start planting tress! (Pity - 'cos I like sweet chestnuts too). Most other nuts are gonna be a problem, therefore?
I take your point about a) growing things that would be more expensive to buy and b) not being bound by what supermarkets are usually confined to, from 'industrial scale' mono-crop suppliers. I do like tomatoes, actually - but I prefer the tinned/Italian/'plum' tomato variety (they are great in veggie stews and go nicely with a bit of salt-free tinned salmon, cockles, mussels or roll-mops (all salt and vinegar-free for me!)) - but I don't think the old pomodori will grow in this country, will they (not even sure if peanuts or any kind of rice will!)?

Yes, I like strawberries (all fruits actually - so long as not too acid ... pity I can't grow bananas/plantains ... they're a staple of my diet) - maybe yams are a possibility (or, again, they need more tropical conditions?).
From the little I know: the problems with strawberries; a) very vulnerable to birds and maggots - and sometimes apt to rot on the ground b) you only get a crop for a very short time (usually during 'Wimbledon' season!).

We are, perhaps, getting deeper and deeper into a virtual correspondence here, Kristen. Kind as you are, I don't wanna impose on you too much!
Obviously, I need to follow up the links you so kindly provided.

About this cat litter thing: I get the message loud and clear as to why dumping it on any part of a garden may not be advisable. But yet I recall - when I lived with parents for years as a bachelor - several cats we had. None used litter trays. All 'relieved themselves', as is their instinct, in parts of the garden - burying it in earth, as cats do. And, yes, my parents grew a few veggies in their garden. Being a bit stupid here (?) ... but why does this suddenly become a problem now?

One thing I definitely WON'T do is put anything at all out in a dustbin or bin bag. I feel very strongly about that - I don't wanna add any more to the world's ever-growing rubbish/infill sites. That's why I recycle everything I can. I listed what goes into my composter. I NEVER waste or throw away perfectly good food and all tins/plastic containers go out for the local authority's recycling collectors; paper and cardboard too - unless it's just small paper/card based food wrapping and similar 'office scale' waste paper - in which case, into the composter (via shredder first if necessary) or else onto my wood burner (and yes, I only ever use recycled or waste wood). So; apart from burning this cat litter (Not sure if that's a good idea - esp on my enclosed wood burner ?), dumping it into the sea (pollution! Untreated 'sewage'??) - I can see no alternative to burying it (which is what would happen, anyway, in effect, if it went out in a bin bag) ... or else flush it down my loo (not a good idea, I think!). Not trying to be awkward here, but what else can you suggest?

I think it might be most helpful to me (very helpful indeed as you have already been) if you might care to give me just a brief set of simple starting advice, taking all this into account?
Don't know if there's a pm'ing facility on this site?



Very best. Many thanks indeed. - JEFF

 

Have a read up on hazel nuts. The ones we think of as hazel nuts are sometimes referred to as cob nuts, but they're the same thing, just selectively bred for bigger nuts

Anyway, hazel nuts grow on very fast growing shrubs that tend to aim straight up. I.e. unlike most trees which fan out, hazel trees tend to stay more or less vertical, so very small footprint. They're also quite pretty, and would be good for softening up the hard edges of a fenced boundary.

 

Cat poo - There's probably much more known now about toxocara cati than when you were young. If you bag it and place in your council bin it will go to land fill (or incineration) and there's no chance of it causing any health problems in humans or other animals. I can't see any problems in 'flushing' it.

Beans - Climbing French beans are a good option for producing beans in limited space. If you can't grow horizontal, then go vertical! Haricot vert are French beans.

Read - As Kristen suggested, Hessayon's Vegetable and Herb Expert. It's very readable only 144 pages and packed with useful information

 

People get carried away ... they go to the garden centre and buy seeds of this and seeds of that ... which is why I said to stick to things that you like. We do get messages on here "I have problem X with plant Y ... and I don't even like it" - I kid you not!

There are loads of varieties, many "stringless" - doesn't mean to say you will like them any the more of course. There are climbing french beans, and "flat" climbing french beans (e.g. the variety Limka) which look somewhat like a runner bean and taste somewhat like a french bean. Its one I personally like.

Square foot gardening is not about gardening in only a single square foot ... its about getting maximum productivity from a small area. You can Google it if you are interested.

Is Potatoes in the same bracket for you, as a crop, as Rice? You'd get a decent Potato crop in the UK, needs some space though ... and prone to Blight which can wipe out the whole crop (growing early potato varieties helps, but they don't store well)

I only grow tomatoes in the greenhouse, so I don't know which varieties would grow outside. Outdoor tomatoes are quite a short-season crop in the UK - although that would be fine if you were going to "process" the crop of course. This thread:
http://gardenerscorner.co.uk/forum/threads/2013-tomato-growing.48555/
has a list of all the varieties that folk on this forum are growing, in case it gives you some ideas of suitable varieties, which you like, that can be grown in the UK

I throw some scaffolders debris netting (cheap as chips) over mine once they have flowered, and before they set fruit. It keeps the birds off. Putting straw around the plants stops them rotting. If you plant several different varieties (from "first early" to "very late" ) then you will be cropping them for most of the summer. There are also "everlasting" varieties that will repeat-flower and crop, although they don't yield as heavily as the short-season varieties, so you would need more plants to compensate - I have some everlasting varieties, and a number of short-season varieties, to spread the Strawberry season.

Not a new problem, but I don't think its very common. But best avoided I think Yes, if you have cats, or neighbours with cats, they are inclined to use the flower/vegetable beds as toilets :(

There's a thing called a "green cone" or "Joanna" or something like that which can be used to compost dog / cat excrement. Its cone shaped and you half-bury it in the ground. No personal experience of it though.

Bit late in the season to start, so I suggest you buy plants from garden centre - that will gain you about 6 weeks over sowing seed. Don't buy plants of Carrots, Parsnips or any really small veg like Radish - waste of money

have a browse of "Vegetable and Herb Expert" on the shelf when you are in the garden centre, in particular "what to sow & when". For anything you decide to have a go at I suggest that you then look on the back of the seed packets, before you buy them, and choose ones that indicate that sowing time is not yet too late. Rule #1 only buy seed for things that you like

Make sure you plan what to plant & where so you can, year after year, adopt a crop rotation as that will help to keep bugs/diseases at bay.