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Advice need for tile fixing outdoors

Discussion in 'General Gardening Discussion' started by JWK, Jun 4, 2017.

  1. JWK

    JWK Gardener Staff Member

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    A tile has come loose from my water feature. I built this about 6 years ago and fixed with a waterproof tile adhesive, I can't remember which product I used. I think last winter rain-water has found it's way down the back of the tiles and frost has loosened them.

    The tiles are pretty heavy 4 or 5 lbs or so.

    I'm wondering if I could stick it back on with silicone rather than tile adhesive - any other ideas?

    20170604-P6040066.jpg

    Doesn't look like I got a very good 'stick' on the back:
    20170604-P6040067.jpg
     
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    • "M"

      "M" Total Gardener

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      No idea ... but I hope someone else can help you.
       
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      • Jiffy

        Jiffy The Match is on Fire

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        I don't think silicone is strong enough, but google things like gripfill, no more nails etc
         
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        • Sandy Ground

          Sandy Ground Total Gardener

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          The first thing that I thought when I saw the photos is that they appear to have been fixed incorrectly from the start.

          First: The substrate is not good enough.

          Second. the "comb" used was far too coarse. If the adhesive used has similar properties to the one I do, then the maximum thickness should be 5mm.

          Third: judging from the tile photo, primer has not been used. If it had, then there would be more adhesive remaining on the tile. This makes me wonder if primer has been used on the substrate also?

          Fourth: For outdoor use, adhesive must be used on both the substrate and the tile. Another reason for using a finer comb, to keep under the 5mm I mentioned above.

          Fifth: Has an outdoor grout been used? If not, that will also be a contributory factor to the problems.

          Sixth: From the photos, it appears that the vertical tiles overlap the horizontal ones. It should be the other way round.

          Seventh: Are the tiles specifically made for outdoor use? ie, are they non porous?

          Sorry to be so negative to the way the work appears to have been carried out.
           
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          • Scrungee

            Scrungee Well known for it

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            I did wonder about those.

            The background appears too far away from the rear of the tiles, meaning a very thick layer of adhesive is required, but only enough has been used to be in contact with a small area of the tile. There is no bond on there rear of the tile. Not having the horizontal tiles oversail the top vertical course is asking for trouble.

            We were once involved in works to a swimming pool, using divers to replace broken tiles underwater after hours (to avoid draining the pool), the task of sitting on the poolside counting the tiles replaced and locking up when they'd finished for the night was extremely lucrative overtime.

            But if swimming pool resin tile adhesive/grout designed for underwater repairs were used then it should suffice for a garden water feature. Perhaps an angle grinder could be used to roughen the rear tile surface to create a better bond?
             
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              Last edited: Jun 12, 2017
            • pete

              pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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              I just think that water probably seeped behind the tile during the winter and the frost loosened it.:)
               
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              • JWK

                JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                Thanks for the replies. Yes Sandy/Scrungee I didn't fix it too well in the first place, the adhesive was too thick a layer but it was outdoor waterproof stuff. I didn't use a primer and must admit I never realised there was such a product. The tiles are non-porous and Ok for outdoors.

                I think my main problem was waterproofing. I used BlackJack (a bituminous waterproofing paint) at the sides of the feature and the rest of the retaining wall, but for some reason I didn't behind the tiles that have come loose at the back. I reckon damp got in the back and the frost popped off the tile as pete says.

                Last weekend I fixed it back on with this stuff:
                95258.jpg
                I also cleared out the grout and sealed the gaps with it.

                So fingers crossed it will last another few years.
                 
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                • JWK

                  JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                  Here's a better picture of it, there are no overlaps, all the tiles are laid long edge horizontally:
                  20140720-IMGP1046.jpg
                   
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                  • JWK

                    JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                    Maybe this is clearer still , whilst it was being built:
                    20110524-IMG_4947.jpg
                     
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                    • Sandy Ground

                      Sandy Ground Total Gardener

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                      Thats a nice feature you have there. I hope the adhesive you bought works.

                      Did you by any chance use concrete behind the tiles? Its a bit difficult to see from the first photos.
                       
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                      • JWK

                        JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                        Yes it's built from Dense Concrete Blocks, it needed to be strong as it doubles as a retaining wall.
                         
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                        • Sandy Ground

                          Sandy Ground Total Gardener

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                          The only reason I asked was that I know concrete has to "mature" for at least two months before it can be tiled. No experience of blocks though.

                          I must say though, I do like the feature.
                           
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