Brexit -am I stupid or what

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by wiseowl, Dec 10, 2018.

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  1. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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    Well, there is a way the Parliament could get around it by having a 2nd Referendum (I hate the dumbed down term of "Peoples Vote" which is thought up to make it sound more acceptable) and ducking their responsibility of making the decisions we voted them and pay them for. So, forgive me if my thoughts take me to the River of Doubt but she is a determined person who just might have always wanted to remain in the EU and continuing to try to push through such a deal knows a No Brexit is becoming more of a possibility

    .[​IMG]
     
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    • wiseowl

      wiseowl Friendly Owl ADMIN Staff Member

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      Good morning I love politics and enjoy watching all the action on TV ;) and I have spent many years studying body language,this is just my observation,yesterday I felt very sorry for Jeremy Bernard Corbyn who is 69 now,he was really put down by Teresa May and never spoke after that,he is like a fish out of water,when he is speaking he never looks up from his notes I guess this is because he doesn't want to make eye contact with anyone,where as confident leaders can read 3 or 4 lines at a glance and look directly at who they are speaking to,he is not an orator with eloquence or skill.:smile:

      This is in now way derogatory to Mr Corbyn as he is a fine man with great principals and sincere beliefs,but unfortunately he hasn't the strength of character or personality to be a leader of any political party,just my humble opinnion of course:smile:

      1,A second referendum well the last one took 7 months to arrange my personal view at this moment in time is that I can't see it:smile:

      Oh dear I said I wasn't going to get involved in this thread:heehee:
       
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        Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
      • Jiffy

        Jiffy The Match is on Fire

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        Jiffy put this up on Nov 18th

        I think it was always going to be a no deal from the start but they had to put a cock and bull story up first, people didn't like what is said or read then it makes it easyer to go for a no deal
        :snorky:
         
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        • shiney

          shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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          I have a logical type problem with a second referendum.

          There were some MPs on the radio discussing the idea of the first one and wanted to overturn it and have a second one "to get a proper decision". :scratch:

          Their argument was that it was only 'advisory' and so parliament can decide to overturn/ignore it. So, in essence, they're arguing that a referendum is not binding. (No stated political point of view from me on this one :noidea:.)

          If they're arguing that a referendum is not important enough for them to act on the result (which they appear to be saying) then why ask for another one if they can't think referenda have any importance? :rolleyespink: :doh:
           
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          • Scrungee

            Scrungee Well known for it

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            I can't help thinking that all this uncertainty dragging on over the run up to Xmas is going to hit shoppers' spending and more stores will go bust in the New Year.
             
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            • Loofah

              Loofah Well used member

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              I don't get the bothering with a confidence vote in the leadership at this point - she'd have been forced out as soon as the deal as rejected anyway, surely? TM going back to the EU to seek assurances to beg for votes on the deal back home obviously isn't going so well as there was an EU chap who said 'we haven't given any assurances on the backstop as the UK haven't asked for any'!
              In terms of succession I could quite happily see Johnny Mercer in the position but I think he hasn't the inclination (which imo makes him a better fit than most!)
               
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              • wiseowl

                wiseowl Friendly Owl ADMIN Staff Member

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                Good morning Loofah well in answer to the first question they cannot have another no confidence vote for at least 12 months.

                The answer to your second question is never say never.

                Johnny Mercer voted to remain in the EU in the 2016 referendum - around 60% of people in Plymouth voted to leave.

                • Consistently voted against paying higher benefits over longer periods for those unable to work due to illness or disability
                • always voted for a reduction in spending on welfare benefits
                Johnny Mercer voted for cuts in housing benefit for recipients in supported housing.

                Johnny Mercer voted for reductions in benefits for disabled and ill claimants who are deemed capable of work.

                Johnny Mercer voted in favour of cutting universal credit benefits for many people in paid work


                Johnny Mercer voted in favour of proposed spending cuts and changes to the welfare system and in favour of spending on new nuclear weapons.
                 
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                • Loofah

                  Loofah Well used member

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                  It was more that Mercer has previously discounted running for the office rather than how he's voted Woo.

                  My first point was that the no confidence vote / fiasco was needless. When TM tables the deal for voting by MP's and loses (I'm presuming here) then her position would have been such that she'd be obliged to resign and so why have the no confidence vote now? It would have been better timed for after the vote on the brexit deal. But then again I'm sure there are other back room shenanigans occurring so who knows?
                   
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                  • Freddy

                    Freddy Miserable git, well known for it

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                    Had enough of Brexit? This might be worth considering....

                     
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                    • silu

                      silu gardening easy...hmmm

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                      Just watched the C4 news. Funny how TM seems to be getting great respect for her tenacity and efforts to get the best deal for Britain while back home she is being slatted:noidea:....well by many altruistic/other agenda lot a la JRM and Boris, plus those deciding to jump the sinking ship again putting self before the wishes of the majority of Britain and supporting the exit of the EU. As for that squib from the past Corbyn, he has been careful to say not a lot as usual.
                      If the referendum is not honoured god help us. I am not a political animal at all but to go against the majority in a democratic country is very dangerous in my opinion. Has it ever happened before? If Brexit doesn't go ahead what is the point of EVER having referendums again? Ok people argue we didn't know what we were voting for. Is this SO different to voting in a general election? I am old enough to have experienced all sorts of promises by all parties over the years to get elected only for those promises to be broken. For the future of democracy in this country we must leave the EU on the best terms possible but we are hardly likely to get a great deal when the rest of the EU wants us to stay!
                      The democratic process is far far more important than the economic nuances of leaving the EU. I voted to remain but Britain didn't do so badly pre 1973 when I was vehemently against joining.Did I accept the vote to join?....yes in those days you sucked it up if a vote went against what you wanted.
                       
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                      • ARMANDII

                        ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                        The problem for the Tories, Loofah, is that they know that if a Leadership contest was initiated there is nobody stupid enough to volunteer for the Poisoned Chalice job of negotiating BREXIT.
                        :dunno::heehee:. Rees Mogg and the ERG committee really want May "gone" and I think they lost the plot in their distaste for her, not believing that they might lose the vote. The fact that May's last trip to Europe trying to persuade Macron, Rutte, Merkel, etc was futile and done in desperation, that triggered a number of MP's to send a letter of no confidence, while before they had held their hand, triggering the No Confidence Vote when it got past 48.:dunno::wallbanging:
                         
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                        • SimonZ

                          SimonZ Gardener

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                          Hi all. I no longer have an opinion on the matter, at least at present, but I'm struggling to keep a thread of what is going on and wondered if I could just run my understanding of it by you and see if it is right. The current state of play is:

                          Mrs May is due to present the deal again (with "clarifications") some time in January.
                          If it is accepted, it becomes the blueprint for the start of Brexit.
                          If it isn't, and there is no preferable alternative by 21s Jan, we either extend Article 50 to thrash out something new, scrap Brexit (which would surely require a Parliamentary vote - I'm assuming the PM can't just scrap it unilaterally) or a General Election, or Referendum, is called.

                          In the case of a Ref, it is not likely to be a re-run of 2016, but rather based on either "May's Deal vs No Deal" or "May's Deal vs Remain" or "Remain vs No Deal" or all three (or possibly including options like EFTA etc)

                          If a General Election, the government could go into it promising to enact Brexit, or saying they would scrap it, as could any of the other parties.

                          I list the above for purely factual reasons, to see if I am wide of the mark or if I have managed to keep up.
                          One thing that does confuse me is that most commentators keep saying the survival of Mrs May ensures her current style of Brexit - ie "Soft Brexit" according to supporters, or "Brexit in name only" according to detractors - should now prevail. On the other hand, I can't help wondering that as the deal has not been supported by Parliament, this makes a No Deal exit far more likely?
                           
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                            Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
                          • Scrungee

                            Scrungee Well known for it

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                          • Fat Controller

                            Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                            We popped to Sainsburys on the way home tonight to get some bread, and I was shocked at how quiet it was for the time of year - normally, at around half past five in the evening, on the lead up to Christmas there are people with trolleys full of stuff, sometimes even two. Today, it was people buying the basics and not a lot more.

                            I was in Kingston yesterday afternoon for a lunch, and being a bit of a retail Mecca, it too is normally heaving - queues for the car parks causing chaos......... yesterday, nothing.
                             
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                            • ARMANDII

                              ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                              May's one, and only, hope, Simon, of getting her deal approved by her own MP's, the DUP, and some Labour MP's is to get the EU to agree to the UK having the right to a unilateral decision to leave the Backstop when it wants. At the moment the UK can only leave the Backstop with the agreement of the EU so, if the EU won't agree, we would have to stay within the EU under the rules agreed in the deal.. At the moment I. personally, think May's chances of getting the EU to give a clear, legally binding, agreement to giving the UK that right to a unilateral decision regarding the Backstop is around zero to less than zero:wallbanging::doh::dunno::coffee:
                               
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