Brexit -am I stupid or what

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by wiseowl, Dec 10, 2018.

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  1. SimonZ

    SimonZ Gardener

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    I totally agree. I've given up having opinions on the matter from a personal perspective, and that is partly because I know that we are all as humans prey to swinging emotions and knee-jerk reactions. This thing needs to be sorted out by professionals experienced in international diplomacy. Then Parliament could excercise its sovereign rights and duty to ratify the deal(s) and we the voters could confirm our assent or otherwise via an election or a series of referenda on individual elements. The EU is not a tablet of stone, it is the product of political evolution, and it can and will evolve further. As it does, so must our relations with it. In my view, we ought to have had a referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon a decade ago, which may have ironed out many public dis-satisfactions with the EU and guided the way towards a better relationship. At least we would have had a reasonable graph of general public opinion.
     
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    • Scrungee

      Scrungee Well known for it

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      The title of this thread gets more apt every day:

      Theresa May cancels the 'meaningful vote' to re-negotiate her deal with the EU, days after to agreeing to it.

      Labour want a general election so they can re-negotiate with the EU.

      The EU refuse to re-negotiate anything.

      Many of those who want the the result of the last referendum ignored, want another referendum.

      The EU insist on no 'hard border' between NI and ROI, but they are the ones who'll insist on one in the event of 'no deal'.

      Etc., DUP, etc., ERG, etc., etc.

      And worst of all, I can't blame Thatcher for any of it!
       
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        Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
      • shiney

        shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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      • pete

        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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        One thing I'm finding disturbing is the fact people are stockpiling, or at least being told to stockpile, all kinds of stuff.
        Have we really sunken so low that we are dependent on the EU to that extent?
        I'm sure we probably have, its something the EU have been working on for years, trapping its members, so that leaving is impossible, at the sametime excluding us from buying from around the world, where, I'm only guessing, things could possibly be cheaper?

        To me, the fact we have reached a point where we are totally dependant on the EU, almost exclusively suggest we should have left years ago.

        Or best, never to have taken part once it started the "United States of Europe" idea.

        I think we have to leave, they are not our friends, politically, by what I'm hearing on the news recently, so biting the bullet seems the best way to go.

        Negotiations can resume once we have left, that is the usual way I think these things work.
        As other countries do seem to manage to make trading deals from the outside, but then I assume we would be held in some contempt being an Ex member.
         
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        • ARMANDII

          ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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          I think I remember the UK trying a more pragmatic and diplomatic approach, over the last 2 years, to the EU, Harry:dunno:............how did that work out???:scratch::heehee:
           
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          • Freddy

            Freddy Miserable git, well known for it

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            Telling our closest trading partners to f-off, what could possibly go wrong? :noidea::thud:
             
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            • ARMANDII

              ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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              Well, Freddy, I guess that depends on whether or not "our closest trading partners" have been saying that to us for the last 2 years.:dunno::snorky:
               
            • pete

              pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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              Well in a way, I think we are the ones being told to F-off, or at least May is.
              They say it is our problem, not theirs.We are the ones leaving.

              True, but only up to a point IMO
               
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              • pete

                pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                "Our closest trading partners"????
                All eggs in one basket comes to mind.:biggrin:
                 
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                • Freddy

                  Freddy Miserable git, well known for it

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                  It can’t be true, “project fear” is what it is ;)
                   
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                  • ARMANDII

                    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                    There's always someone who will be stockpiling for whatever reason in whatever situation The media have been willing participants in spreading the alarm and panic among those easily influenced by Project Fear.:doh::wallbanging::coffee:.
                     
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                    • HarryS

                      HarryS Eternally Optimistic Gardener

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                      We made the bed Armandi , now the EU are saying lie in it :heehee:
                       
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                      • pete

                        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                        Basically the EU has been making the bed for the last 40 yrs, all we are trying to do is get up out of it.:biggrin:
                         
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                        • ARMANDII

                          ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                          Well, again, Harry, that depends on whether you consider that the EU bed we were already lying on was proving to be a bed of nails

                          [​IMG]

                          and so we're attempting to buy a new one under WTO rules.:dunno::heehee::heehee::heehee::heehee:
                           
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                          • HarryS

                            HarryS Eternally Optimistic Gardener

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                            And sleep on the street ?
                             
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