Brexit -am I stupid or what

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by wiseowl, Dec 10, 2018.

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  1. longk

    longk Total Gardener

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    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Britain was on it's knees! Since joining British GDP in terms of growth has outdone Germany, France and the US.

    There seems to be something of an epidemic of that amongst high profile Tories over the last couple of years :heehee:

    It is actually the other way around - the EU cannot accept any land border in Ireland. Of course, that gives the DUP the cobby hump and so it goes on!

    Strangely, back in 2011 when it suited him Jacob Rees-Mogg was actually advocating a two referendum vote. One before the renegotiation (of the UK agreement with the EU) and a second after the renegotiation!

    Actually it is 'only' 45% of our eggs in one basket! 45% shared amongst 27 countries the other 55% shared amongst the remaining 165 countries.

    That is bad news. Good luck with the surgery and any further treatment.
     
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    • Freddy

      Freddy Miserable git, well known for it

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      For my part, I’m an inclusionist, I’m weird like that. That means embracing all aspects. It seems to me that in this thread at least, this is something that is sadly lacking. One would think that on a forum of shared interest, that a spirit of compromise would prevail. It seems not, if this thread is anything to go by. I think my days here are numbered...
       
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      • Mike Allen

        Mike Allen Total Gardener

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        Freddy. Many thanks for your best wishes.

        Now STOP IT! You are a very valid member on here. Don't talk daft.
         
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        • Scrungee

          Scrungee Well known for it

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          What stuff?

          Bread, toilet rolls, medicines, Glyphosphate?


          P.S. Are the EU stockpiling fish?

          And it seems Ireland might need to start stockpiling all sorts of stuff

          [​IMG]
           
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            Last edited: Dec 15, 2018
          • Fat Controller

            Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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            Nobody wants to disregard the views of anyone - surely that is the reason that we had a vote? I swayed between stay or leave as much as anyone else, but almost since the day of the vote I have become more entrenched in my views to leave mostly based on the behaviour of the EU and the way that they have been dismissive of the UK.

            At the end of the day, I am convinced that we will all be sent back to the polls, and we will end up having a remain vote with the percentage of the vote being fairly similar in favour of the remain vote. If that is the case, then so be it - BUT, what is then going to happen to take into account the views of the 'losing side' of that vote, and what is going to happen to prevent any future government only being able to form a government by using OUR money as a political bribe?

            I for one strongly believe that politicians are not paid anywhere near enough for the job they do, or the responsibility they hold - they should be paid multiples more than they are, but there should be less of them (clear out the House of Lords for a start), and they should also be beholden to the same rules that you and I would be in a modern workplace - for example, if one of my staff called another member of staff a 'piece of moo poo' then they would be subject to a disciplinary enquiry and would be lucky to end up with a final written warning. They currently behave like overgrown schoolchildren - jeering, name-calling, bullying and even going as far as to pick up the mace and try to leave the chamber with it. WE pay for these people to be there to do a job, and it is a job of high office, NOT a posh university bar.

            For this country and/or the EU to survive and thrive, DEEP political reform is needed - there needs to be less interference in people's lives (dictating the size of kettles/vacuum cleaners, sugar tax etc), less of this nonsense of one body fining another because they do not meet some standard that was laid out and agreed to 20 years ago, less of one government department fining another, less 'milking' the general public at every opportunity, less time spent on humouring the ultra-PC mob, and more time spent doing what we actually pay them to do.
             
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            • Scrungee

              Scrungee Well known for it

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              I reckon it'll be a full house, PM resignation/leadership battle, General Election(s) resulting in no overall majority and another Referendum(s?), but I haven't a clue whether the UK will actually leave EU.
               
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              • Fat Controller

                Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                Could well be, and I am convinced we won't actually leave now. What does genuinely concern me is just how much of all this sort of nonsense needs to happen before politicians near and far realise that it is THEY who are the problem.
                 
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                • wiseowl

                  wiseowl FRIENDLY ADMIN Staff Member

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                  Good morning as someone who sees life through rose tinted glasses I think Mrs Mays Brexit plan vote will go through as I have had a word with all parties concerned and they have said that on this rare occasion they for the sake of the UK they will all stick together:lunapic 130165696578242 5::sofa:
                   
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                  • shiney

                    shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                    I agree. :blue thumb:

                    I don't agree with that one. Yes, they do need a goodly reduction in who is in there but some of them do an excellent job and they are able to pull the Commons up on a lot of the rubbish they try to get through. Quite a lot of the 'Lords' are extremely wise and intelligent and it's quite instructive to sit in the public gallery there - and much better than listening to the pig sty of the Commons.

                    Signed
                    Lord Shiney :paladin:
                     
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                    • silu

                      silu gardening easy...hmmm

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                      • pete

                        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                        • wiseowl

                          wiseowl FRIENDLY ADMIN Staff Member

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                          He'd have give them Brexit:lunapic 130165696578242 5:
                           
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                          • SimonZ

                            SimonZ Gardener

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                            [QUOTE
                            Strangely, back in 2011 when it suited him Jacob Rees-Mogg was actually advocating a two referendum vote. One before the renegotiation (of the UK agreement with the EU) and a second after the renegotiation!
                            [/QUOTE]

                            Sounds fair. And Farage argued publicly that if the vote was 52/48 in favour of Remain, a second ref should be scheduled. As will be whichever side loses the almost inevitable next ref. I hate to describe it in terms of "sides" and winning and losing, but that's how it has now come to feel, like a volatile sport. There is a predictability about it all - if Remain wins next time around, it will be hard-line Leavers calling for a "People's Vote," and Remainers saying this would be undemocratic, too divisive, etc. It is rare I take the part of Nigel Farage but I must acknowledge he made a good point in a podcast with Nick Clegg some months back, that his lot had to wait 40 years for their second ref, and he thought we should at least implement the result and give it 5 to 10 years before another round. On the other hand what we would presumably be voting on is not a re-run of 2016, but Theresa May's deal vs the status quo.

                            If both sides just admitted that this is ultimately politics and their essential aim is to win, it would all become much clearer. We have to take into account that each generation will include people with different views, and views will change. We should also acknowledge that both Euroscepticism and pro-EU attitudes are valid, and both should be given a fair outing. Some people accuse the Lib Dems of being undemocratic because they support a second vote, but as the EU has always been central to their political philosophy it would be absurd to expect them to just junk that idea, just as it would be to expect Ukip to become pro-EU.
                             
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                            • pete

                              pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                              Tell us what your preferred outcome is Freddy, I'll listen, might not agree, but we all have our say.
                              Dont let the "he who shouts loudest" put you off, we all have valid points to make.:blue thumb:
                              I just write what I think. ;)
                               
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                              • wiseowl

                                wiseowl FRIENDLY ADMIN Staff Member

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                                I daren't write what I think:lunapic 130165696578242 5:
                                 
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