Frost damaged pots

I paid £75 for five 16" ceramic pots from a local garden centre, last summer, each were wrapped in bubblewrap and placed against our southfacing back wall of our house during the cold weather.

When removing the bubblewrap insulation today, this is what I found, these three have blast damage to the rims. I phoned the garden centre and complained, I can't remember if they were supposed to be frost resistant, but I expect a pot that size which is meant to be used outdoors not to fail, as you can't be expected to move that sized pot and plant into a warmer environment in the winter.







These two are fine.





I took the photos as I'm off back to the garden centre with copies of them tomorrow. It's an arrangement I've made with them, I'll buy three more and be able to swop over my rhodo, rose and three trees. I'll return with the damaged post and get a refund.
I wouldn't accept any "we don't sell them as frost resistant" nonsense from them.

 

Good for you Doghouse, I hope you get what you want. However, I do have some sympathy with the manufacturers of clay pots. I was in ceramics before I started gardening so I know the problems inherent with working in clay.

As the pots you bought weren't hugely expensive :dh: they would have been produced in their thousands. The rim, as it was thicker than the rest of the pot, wouild have been the most vulnerable part. This winter we've had such awful weather and the alternate wet, then cold and frost would have tested the most well-made, high fired pot.

So saying, I think you're right to complain as these big organisations get very complacent as few people can be bothered to take up the cudgel. I speak from experience as we've just had a run-in with both the AA and Comet online and have got - some - satisfaction, after numerous phone calls and complaints. Grr

Chris

 

Good luck, it will depend on your garden centre. I wouldn't give you your money back as they don't look frost proof to me.

What would you expect if a plant was bought and it was frost tender.

 

Doghouse - I have great sympathy and I hope that you get some compensation. However it has been a bad year for pots, and you may not get any success.

I think that the problem is not the cold as such, but the fact that moisture gets into the porous terracotta, which then expands as it freezes and breaks it. There are a couple of ways of reducing this. One is to buy the glazed type of pot, where the moisture shouldn't get in. And the other is to put the pots under some sort of cover where the rain won't get at them. If I have an empty pot, I put a bin bag over it.

 

Thanks for the several comments.
But as a retired superstore manager I'm very au fait with the "Sale of Goods Act." Goods have to be "fit for the purpose for which they were sold." In this case these pots aren't "indoor pots" and if there were any chance of them being damaged by the weather they should have been sold as such (like "indoor" and "outdoor" Christmas lights). It would be unreasonable to expect anyone to lift such a large pot and move it and it's contents into a warmer location each year. So I'm on very firm ground.
If a retailer has any fear of these things "blasting out" then they shouldn't sell them. But they do as few I guess get returned.

On the subject of Comet, they are they are the "world's worst."
I recently bought a new 32" TV in there as they had the best price.
At the point of sale, I was asked if I wanted to purchase an extended warranty.

"Why?"

"In case anything goes wrong."

"Well, if it goes wrong at any time in the next six years, you'll be giving me a new one or a refund under the terms of the Sale of Goods Act."

"I don't know anything about that."

"No, you wouldn't would you?"

But he did look a bit sheepish.

John Lewis has the right idea, they offer a "five year guarantee." Thus making a positive out of a contractual obligation.

Over the years we've had a three year or TV replaced, a four year old washing machine replaced and an expensive two year old carpet cleaner/shampooer.

Anyone who gets any resistance from a retailer in such situations, should contact their local council's Trading Standards offices. They will put the retailer "right" for them.

Anyone who pays for an extended warranty is in my opinion a mug.
I had to laugh, we bought a bed base from Argos on-line the other day.
I was offered "furniture insurance."
I wonder if anyone falls for that one.

Newspapers don't make a big thing about this act which has been in force for about thirty years with several revisions, despite many people not knowing their rights. Probably because the big retailers of domestic appliances advertise in them.

 

But they'd have to tell you it was "frost tender" if it were a perennial and sold for outdoors.
We're getting our orange and lemon trees we bought last year replaced by Ideal World, as they were advertised as "hardy" and both died over the winter each being in one of these pots which were bubble wrapped, the trees had "tree cosies" on them which were bought with the trees. Both pots were up on bricks and against an outside wall of our house.

We've taken two two-year-old David Austin roses back to Bents and had them replaced when they died. It pays to keep receipts and the two year guarantee they give you.
They rely on people "not bothering."

 

Then calling orange and lemon trees 'hardy' was the mistake of the company. I would never, ever describe them as hardy in this country. Even in Florida, where it is much warmer in winter in general, the orange trees can be damaged if there is a cold winter.

I think the most I ever paid for a plant was £15 for a Canary Palm that died last winter when the temperature plummeted. Now I stick to half hardy plants and if they die over winter, it's because I was lax!

 

Well I've just returned from the garden centre armed with my receipts and photographs. It's one of a chain, quite big and the car park was nearly full. I guess the warm weather brought a lot of (old) people out.
I was met with some "token resistance" from the manager, who said that none of the pots they sold were guaranteed as "frost proof." He also said there was no way he could give me a refund or exchange. I then got a spiel about "unpresidented cold weather."
I said "None of your pots are sold as anything, as there are no signs up, I've just looked. You do sell some which have "frost resistant" on them. But that's a nonsense, it means nothing in law. It just means they might crack or they might not, doesn't it?"
The mention of the Sale of Goods Act, got him a bit hot under the collar. So I quietly suggested he phoned his head office as I wasn't going to let it drop. He disappeared with my photos and receipts to phone his head office.
He returned after about ten minutes to tell me....wait for it... "On this occasion, as a good will gesture"...(give me a break!)
The upshot is, I've three replacement pots and I don't even have to bring the old ones back.
I never raise my voice on these occasions, the poor guy was just doing what he was told. These days such people working for chains are usually "jobsworths," they are paid peanuts and just follow orders. The fact that he couldn't give a refund or exchange for £45 off his own bat says it all.

 

Well done Doghouse. There is no question that if you stand your ground and are most insistant ( usually based on good knowledge of your rights) - you are most likely to get your money back. The problem with most people (me included) is that they don't persist enough.

 

You're dead right Doghouse about products being "fit for purpose". Briefly, our Comet story relates to a dishwasher we bought online in December as it was a good price - now I know why. It never really worked properly so at the beginning of February we asked for an engineer to come out.

He was grumpy and unhelpful, couldn't fix the machine and said we'd have to wait a week for a new circuit board. We complained to Comet about his manner after he'd gone - perhaps that's why we received such lousy service. A week later another engineer arrived with the part - which didn't work and he went off without an explanation. My wife was livid and tried to get some sense out of their customer care (ho! ho!) centre but was stoenwalled and couldn't get any where. As a journalist who used to work on a national newspaper she's used to making progress with complaints but Comet defeated her.

I finally got hold of someone who was really helpful, only to find that he was leaving to run one of their stores - good luck to him - and he arranged for anther engineer to come out.

Now you'd think they'd send someone senior, with a calming manner as they must have known we'd have no more nonsense with them but who did they send? A girl of about 20, who although I sure was just as qualified as the men, was like sending a lamb to the slaughter. My wife was so incensed that she had to leave the house while the girl looked at the machine and the part she'd brought, and informed me that it was the wrong one! I told her she wasn't leaving and we blocked her can in on the drive. Then, after several phone calls from her and from me, the machine was finally written off. But it didn't end there.

Comet wanted to either replace the duff machine or give us Comet vouchers. I almost told them where they could stick them and after a lot more argey-bargey on the phone, they finally agreed to a full refund.

Now we're both intelligent, fairly forceful people but imagine if they treated a meaker person, say a widow who didn't like to cause trouble in the same manner. It doesn't bear contemplating.

So, the moral of the story is, DON'T BUY ONLINE, ESPECIALLY FROM COMET, because there's a reason why it's cheaper. Like Doghouse, I'll be going to John Lewis from now on. Meanwhile we're rediscoveing the pleasure(?) of washing up!:lollol:

Chris

 

You do take a chance buying on-line, but it shouldn't be with a reputable retailer. Pretty much all of them have a website. But you have to be careful, it isn't always cheaper on-line, as often you've a better price in-store. Same with insurance, get a quote on-line but then ring up, it could be cheaper. There's a growing tendancy to "load" the on-line price as they know most people are lazy and don't bother to ring round a few stores.
Where the problem can arise is with a brand name bought on line from a small company, if they go belly-up after a year, you're in queer street as under the Sale of Goods Act, they are responsible, not the retailer.

As for engineers, they're a "dying breed." These days many are just "circuit board changers" and have no knowledge of schematics.
With one of my hobbies which is vinyl jukeboxes, all the "experts" I talk to on line are now in their sixties, as post 1980s jukeboxes are mostly "plug n' play" now.
My 1969 vintage jukebox has a slight problem which I can't fix. The guy coming out to it next week is nearly seventy.
Fortunately, we've a pet washing machine/dryer/dishwasher man who've we've known for over thirty years who became a family friend. He'll come out at the drop of a hat.
He's got to come out to our washing machine, tomorrow which is about seven years old now as it was leaking a bit this morning. Mind you it's on at least three times a day. So the washing is "building up."
You can't take anything off and put it down in our house before my wife picks it up and puts it in the machine.

 

That's the sort of man to have. Although not ancient, I belong to the "let's see if we can fix it rather than throw it away" school but with modern electronics and circuit boards in everything, that's becoming increasingly hard to do.

Anyway, must get back to the washing up:flag:

Chris

 

Back to pots.
I've had some clay pots that have lasted for years outside, but this year has written most of them off.

They were cheap imports from warmer parts of the world, and I'm surprised they have lasted as long as they have in the British climate.
I do have a few British made ones that are fairly old and "frost guaranteed", I take this to mean that should they be broken in frosty weather, they are Guarenteed, ie will be replaced by the manufacturer.

In my book when buying terracotta, if it doesn't say its frost hardy then it aint.

As for those glazed pots from the far east, I agree, the glaze would probably stop the moisture from getting into the clay, but with most of them you find the top is actually narrower than the middle of the pot.
The compost freezes, pushes up as it expands, and cracks the rim.
Apart from that, have you ever tried to remove a specimen plant from one of these pots, the only way is by using a hammer.

 

Pete, I always like to see a guarantee - but it doesn't neccessarily mean what you want it to mean.

There was the case of one advertiser who sold a product with "money back guaranteed if not delighted with the purchase." When one customer said he was not delighted and wanted his money back - the seller said that he was delighted that the product had been purchased and wouldn't be returning the money.

Then another case was the cockroach killer. Guaranteed to work every time if you follow the instructions. The product consisted of two blocks of wood, and the instructions said place the cockroach on block A and hit with block B. - works every time. :D

 

I'm digressing now but it is about getting things fixed.
On one of the jukebox sites a "newbie" reported that when he made a selection say A1, it played A2, or C3, it played C4 and so on. The carousel slots are numbered to coincide with the title card numbers.
One of the old guys carefully explained that the locking nut in the centre of the wobble plate where the selector pins are activated, had probably slipped and the plate was out of sync with the carousel that holds the records at the other end of the shaft. It was just a question of releasing the locking nut re-aligning the carousel's "rest position" with the appropriate marks and re-tightening the nut.
This fairly basic advice didn't sink in, as the guy kept asking questions.

So in the end they guy trying to help him said; "Tell you what, leave it as it is and just move all your records up one slot in the carousel."
This caused some amusement amongst other contributors.