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fruit border advice needed

Discussion in 'Edible Gardening' started by seneca, Sep 16, 2013.

  1. seneca

    seneca Apprentice Gardener

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    garden diagram.jpg hello everyone,
    I've got a border area which is 9m long and 1.2m wide. It runs along a 1.8m tall fence which is north facing, but also has the tops of my neighbours shrubs, making it around 2.2m tall. Interestingly, there used to be some very old shrubs in the border that grew quite tall and leafy before I removed them. This may be because the tops of the shrubs got sunlight for a reasonable part of the day, or possibly the rich and moist soil underneath them. I would say the soil is quite fertile and moisture retentive/slightly water logged (due to lack of light, warmth or the high water table in the area.)
    My predicament is this: I would like to try and grow some fruit in this border. It will be an experiment, so within reason, I am willing to be disappointed! Obviously I would like to do all that I can to minimise failure (choice of fruit, variety, rootstock, training) , but realise the odds may be stacked against me.
    I'm interested in desert varieties of apple, pear and plum, and being ambitious (if a little greedy) would like to get as much viable fruit as possible, as tree numbers, rootstocks, planting distance, forms allow.
    The actual fence is not in great condition either, and due to it's north-facing orientation would not allow any training onto it. Something like a free-standing espalier shape, with some support rigged up around it might work, but I doubt it. My idea would be to grow trees that would be like half/standards, but no more than 4m tall ie. more at the top, above the fence, where the sunlight is. A concern over apples is they fruit on lateral shoots, so would need to be pruned/trained to encourage these, while being high up in the canopy. Maybe fruit trees that have a naturally upright shape might help. Similarly, would ideas like planting more trees close to each other and severe pruning and summer pruning encourage fruiting? despite the not ideal conditions.
    Any ideas or suggestions will be welcome (apologies for the poor diagram.)
     
  2. Loofah

    Loofah Admin Staff Member

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    I wouldn't plant them closer together as that won;t help anything at all (apart from pests and disease spread). I'd prep the ground now and buy some bare root trees over winter. Evenly space them and plant some fruit bushes in between. Do your research though as some varieties need a pollinator close by. The trees will have to be pruned to shape but it's not a hard job
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • noisette47

      noisette47 Total Gardener

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      Some apple varieties are tip-bearers.
      If you can get hold of a copy, 'Fruit' by Harry Baker is a fantastic book for planning. ISBN 0-85533-705-2
      From experience, the pear variety Beurre Hardy is very upright-growing with large, beautifully-flavoured fruit.
       
    • seneca

      seneca Apprentice Gardener

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      Thanks for the replies folks - keep them coming - let's have some fruity brainstorming!
      I've realised that the idea I had in mind was poorly conveyed in the posting (and especially the diagram.) Here's goes with another attempt... and another poor diagram!
      My standard tree idea was to have the clear stem out of the light and the top branch sytem (leaves & fruit) to be in sunlight. This may encourage some fruit to form and possibly ripen. The stem section may be wasted, but it does not get enough direct sun to allow fruiting from low down to high up, as most trained fruit has (cordons, fans espaliers.) However, the idea of a tree trained to be like a tall step-over (one tier espalier) might work, but it wastes a lot lot of space and would need some training! A big T - tall stem and long laterals. It will also look "ahem" bizarre (no laughing please.) I would ideally like the overall height of the tree to be around 4m and pruned so that most of thefruiting branches hang over my side of the fence. Don't mind climbing a ladder. I used to go up an old apple bush tree that had an open goblet shape that had a 1m tall stem in my old garden. That tree would do well in this situation if I removed the brances that would push into the fence.

      Regarding varieties I've tasted and enjoyed: Apples - Sunset, Egremont Russet, Discovery, Scrumptious, Spartan, Fiesta, Red Falstaff. Pears - Comice, Concorde, Beth, Conference, Williams. Plums - Jubilee, Opal, Victoria, Green Gage, Ouillins Gage. Currently I'm thinking of 2 apple trees, 2 pear trees and forgoing plums for lack of space and ripening conditions. As I don't want any culinary only varieties, and if desert varieties are difficult in semi-shade or sun for only half the day, then how about dual purpose variety as a compromise. Then it could be left to ripen for longer and eaten as a desert. Or maybe planting early varieties and just leaving them to get sun for longer and picking later. Suagrs may have developed by then.
       

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    • JWK

      JWK Gardener Staff Member

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      There is a big choice out there, last year I took a long time to decide what to plant in a similar sized border to yours. I think 3 trees is really the maximum for that size:

      http://gardenerscorner.co.uk/forum/threads/best-apples-and-pears-for-espalier.47897/
       
    • Loofah

      Loofah Admin Staff Member

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      Don't get too hung up on the branches being in sunlight as much as possible. I have a apple (Spartan) tree in the front garden which is mostly shade and always get a good crop
       
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