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Grass dying

Discussion in 'Lawns' started by Wildman10, Feb 21, 2022.

  1. Wildman10

    Wildman10 Gardener

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    Three years ago I levelled a well-drained south-facing wonky lawn by digging out the old turf and copious tree roots left over from the 3 large mature trees I had removed from the lawn edges, adding some new soil from a neighbour and seeding with grass seed. The lawn is effectively left alone and unused apart from regular weeding (hand tools, no chemicals). The soil is IMO pretty normal; the area is relatively Sandy but a DIY test shows bias towards neither sand nor clay, albeit that digging 2 ft down shows relatively Sandy soil.

    in the first year the grass grew well except for bleached footprints that I put down to dust from limestone slabs I’d been cutting for a patio. However, over winter some large patches of grass died out, which I put down to shade from the shed to the south.

    In the next year I reseeded the lost patches and the grass grew fine, albeit with the same bleached footprints. Over the winter the same patches died out and moss replaced it. Thinking that shadow was the cause, I raked out the moss, put down a combined moss killer and fertiliser, and then reseeded with seed for shaded areas.

    However, after a summer of vigorous growth much of the grass has died off over winter. I reseeded in autumn with grass for shaded areas, with some growing but most producing nothing. See the images.

    The neighbour has now told me that some of the soil he gave me was reclaimed from a mix of rubble and soil. It may therefore be contaminated.

    Please help me by advising what I should do here. Rip out the whole lawn and lay turf? Give up and do something else with the patches, such as dig out for plants? Or something in between?

    Thanks for any help.
     

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  2. Perki

    Perki Total Gardener

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    It hard to say really , it could be a drainage issue looking at they is more damage at the bottom than the top. What sort of grass seed are you putting down ? And have you ever done a PH test on the soil , what colour of flowers is the Hydrangea in your neighbours garden ? that's usually I good indicator what the PH of the soil is .
     
  3. Wildman10

    Wildman10 Gardener

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    Thanks.

    I can’t remember what colour the hydrangea was. I haven’t done a PH test. The image shows the grass in the first summer. The bush at the image lower right has been removed. The corner of the grass in the first images is under the image bottom left.

    The grass on both neighbours have the same slope but not the same issues.
     

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  4. JWK

    JWK Gardener Staff Member

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    Have you got dogs Wildman10 ?
     
  5. Wildman10

    Wildman10 Gardener

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    No dogs.

    We do, though, have urban foxes and, in the past badgers, which I haven’t seen for over 3 years. I ‘scent’ the concrete areas front and back every few weeks to dissuade the foxes and local cats from pooing; the neighbours have problems with fox and cat poo but we don’t. The foxes and cats jump over the fences, go through the badger gate I built in the RHS fence as you look down or go between the shed bottom side and bottom fence. I’ve not seen the foxes and cats using the damaged areas.
     
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    • JWK

      JWK Gardener Staff Member

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      It didn't look immediately like animals weeing on the grass, as it usually make the surrounding grass around the patch much greener. Worth ruling out.

      I suppose it's not been flooded or extremely wet, that could kill grass roots - you would have said so. That comes back to contaminated soil, which is difficult to explain as your grass seed germinated and grew Ok in the first year. Another possibility is over-applying the moss killer and/or fertilizer.

      There does look to be foot prints along the middle and towards the shed, I wouldn't think limestone dust from cutting stones would produce that effect. Cement would though, so it could be that some got trodden onto the grass when you made the patio. Or maybe mortar slurry from washing out a mixer might have got on there?
       
    • Loofah

      Loofah Admin Staff Member

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      Looks like compaction or debris under the surface and it appears quite long from the pics so a scarification might help. If compacted soil then that needs sorting or grass won't grow well.
      How easy is it to stick a fork in?
       
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      • Jiffy

        Jiffy The Match is on Fire

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        Is any one coming in at night or when you are out and doing things etc to give you proplems
         
      • Wildman10

        Wildman10 Gardener

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        Thanks all.

        Any walking would have been in a straight line and wouldn’t explain the spread out patches. Whilst some cement dust may have blown in the wind when I did the paths in the picture (the patio you see was laid over 30 years ago), that would have been on to the old grass that I removed before laying the new grass.

        I have done my best to only lay the recommended amounts of moss killer and fertiliser. I used a spreader to ensure that I didn’t have concentrated patches. The affected areas have effectively received the same treatment as the good patches. I’ve regularly scarified the surface in attempting to keep moss down. I can push a fork in with pressure and a tent peg to get at weed roots goes in easily enough (I find taking all weeds out - a stitch in time - to be quite therapeutic).

        When I laid the lawn I dug out the old grass, knocked off loose soil, forked down to at least 4” to turn the soil over and remove all roots and stones, and then compacted with a roller (seen against the fence in the image above). I then levelled the lawn with the soil dug from where I put the lower path mixed with some extra from a neighbour, supposedly top soil dug out for his conservatory base that he now says might have been mixed with soil that came in on the hard core used in that base. Finally, I scarified the surface, mixed in recommended soil improvers and laid grass seed, watering as recommended.

        The soil drains well and never floods. Although the slope is primarily down to the worst areas, it is also sideways away from them (towards the far RHS in the whole-lawn images).

        As for the neighbours, I can’t think of anyone that could be causing this. They have their idiosyncrasies and we’ve had the odd disagreement, but nothing remotely suggesting sabotage.

        I see PH testers are relatively cheap so will get one. I did look at getting a soil contamination analysis but the costs of a proper one seem to be £150 upwards. There are cheaper nutrient analysis kits but I’m not sure how helpful they’d be.
         
      • pete

        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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        I think there could be more than one thing going on here.

        Just an observation but the grass looks very fine in texture.

        Got to ask, do you cut it regularly, the dead thatch looks a bit long, it also looks long in the last pic from the house.
        When you do cut it is the mower sharp and do you collect the clippings.

        Are you sure no waterlogging has taken place at any time.

        I'd steer clear of moss killer until the grass is well established, likewise fertilisers, which could have washed into certain areas causing overdose in those places.
         
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        • Wildman10

          Wildman10 Gardener

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          Thanks.

          The grass is long in those images, taken after I stopped cutting the grass for a while to see if variation in growth rates might indicate an issue. . The patches have been essentially the same whether I grew the grass long or cut it short to see what effect that had. The only noticeable difference once I’d cut the grass was that long grass reduced the moss and weeds, which I’d expected.

          The mower is an older rotary one. I sharpen the blades regularly and it cuts well. I collect cuttings in the mower’s basket then rake up any left on the lawn. The lawn does get a variety of leaves on it in Autumn that I rake up every week or so.

          I’m sure that the dead patches have never waterlogged. Dig a foot down and the soil becomes quite Sandy. Even after thunderstorms there is no pooled surface water and any water soaked into the surface disappears rapidly.
           
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          • JWK

            JWK Gardener Staff Member

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            It must be something to do with the imported bad soil. If it was mine I would dig out a foot or so of soil from a few of the patches and replace with good topsoil. I have had good results with Wickes topsoil in 35l bags. Then sow into that as a test, wait a month until the weather starts to improve. Might take a while, the alternative is to replace the lot or target all the patches. Buying in a few turves would give you a quicker result you can cut turf to fit into the patches. You will end up with a patchwork though.
             
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            • Sheal

              Sheal Total Gardener

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              I think it's a soil problem and agree with John's idea to remedy it. If it works then replace all the soil.

              Wildman did you have the patches in the lawn before you replaced the soil with what your neighbour gave you? If not, that suggests the problem is contamination.
               
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              • Wildman10

                Wildman10 Gardener

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                Thanks.

                I don’t remember any contamination. However, it was mostly weeds then (it came with the house) and the corner area of the worst bit was taken up by a shrub that I took out.

                Adding some more info and thoughts:
                @ I have some spare original topsoil that I later took from the front lawn when adding a path. I know it is uncontaminated. I can use that to do a large patch, possibly mixing with bought topsoil.
                @ I realised that there is an area that can’t have contaminated soil in it. When I redid the lawn I left a shrub in a bed, in the bottom RHS of the whole-garden images, then I later dug out the bed, added topsoil taken from the front and seeded. The image attached shows the grass on it has yellowed; you can make out the join where the grass stopped and, on the RHS, where there is some bare earth from an animal digging into the grass, which happens occasionally and affects everyone’s lawns. Thus I may have other issues besides possible contamination.
                @ I also attach some images of the neighbours’ gardens. They’re not gardeners and I’ve only ever seen them cut their lawns, suggesting that the issues are mine alone.
                 

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              • Sheal

                Sheal Total Gardener

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                There would still have been grass in between the weeds. Again, I'm pretty sure it's contamination. The light, almost white colour suggests to me it's damage from cement particles - which were probably amongst the soil/rubble. If it was fertiliser damage it would usually be yellow, brown or black.

                Yes, it's worthwhile trying that. If you intend grass seeding you may have to wait a while. It will struggle to germinate and grow under 12C.
                 
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