Isn't any peat in compost an environmental no-no?

Discussion in 'Compost, Fertilisers & Recycling' started by Lone Northern Lass, May 22, 2020.

  1. Lone Northern Lass

    Lone Northern Lass Apprentice Gardener

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    Had my first venture to garden centres since the relaxation of lockdown this morning. Dobbies had a big queue built up prior to opening at 9am. I therefore turned the car round and went to a local nursery.

    There were far fewer people at the nursery (fewer than half a dozen punters in the whole place), but all the compost they were selling had peat in it. Inspecting one of the bags, it said 'the peat in this product is not from sites of scientific interest' (or words to that effect). However, I thought from an environmental point of view all peat is better off in the ground rather than being dug up for compost supplies? Have I misunderstood something? Obviously, if my compost is going to have peat in, I'd rather it's peat which isn't from a site of special scientific interest, but I thought peat-free is by far the best option environmentally?

    For this and other reasons (e.g. no strimmer wire or hosepipe available at the nursery), I ended up going back to Dobbies and buying from there today - with my purchases including 3 bags of MPC and 2 tomato grow-bags, all peat-free - so now looking forward to trying sowing some of the seeds I've had sitting around in packets for a while.
     
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    • cinnamon:g

      cinnamon:g Apprentice Gardener

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      I’m fairly new to this too and wondered the same thing so interested to hear what you may have discovered since?

      As you allude to all I was able to determine was that the process of acquiring peat for commercial compost can be damaging to the area it comes from. That’s enough for me to avoid it entirely however I have no idea how that effects the outcome of my endeavour.
       
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      • ARMANDII

        ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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        I have to say I have considered over the years the discussion as to whether or not Peat or Peat added Compost should/should not be used by Gardeners and have always said that when a comparable Peat free growing medium comes on the market at around the same price I would use it. However, in my opinion, that moment hasn't arrived as I have trialed various Peat free composts and found the results to be not the best and, in fact, some Peat free composts were more than poor.
        I generally use and buy around 2500 litres or more of Peat Added Compost in 125 litre bales every year and would use an alternative if (a) it was as good a growing medium as Peat added Compost and/or (b) an equal/affordable price which it is not. Monty Don and other "celebrity" Gardeners advocate the sole use of Peat free compost, which is good, however you will notice that they also use it in large quantities because they can afford to, have larger wallets and purses than the ordinary gardener, and a lot of them actually add other materials to their compost to make up for the lack of nutrients etc.
        As an aside, it always makes me wince when I see them showing Gardeners how to plant up pots for display using a quantity of plants that put the cost of that one pot of plants over the £100 mark.
        Ireland is the main supplier of Peat for general purpose compost as we all know and they have been extracting Peat for centuries. They use the majority of Peat extracted for fuel in their Power Stations and have a project to reduce the usage but, despite claims to have substantially reduced the use of Peat for fuel that reduction figure is only around the 3% mark.
        We are now, thank goodness, more environmentally aware in the UK than we have ever been, but Farmers still use Pesticides and Chemical fertilisers in great quantities. Gardeners still use Chemical Pesticides etc to control unwanted Insects etc in their gardens which also causes casualties to beneficial insects so we Humans are affecting all spectrums of the environment. I'm no leading light in the care of the Environment but, in my chaotic, over planted, Insect friendly, Cottage Style garden, I don't use Pesticides in any form as all forms of Life have a place in my garden. I do use chemical high Potash Fertilisers on my Hardy Perennials and Shrubs in the borders etc, but always with an monthly/annual addition of thousands of litres of garden compost/used commercial compost
        So, Yes, I would love to buy, and use, a Peat Free Compost in large quantities but, despite Marketing and Advocaters claims, I have yet to trial and find a usable. comparable, affordable in the quantities that I use, Peat Free Compost. The sooner, in reality, that happens the happier I will be. but it ain't happened yet:dunno::yes::cat-kittyandsmiley::coffee:
         
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        • Shuyel Bari

          Shuyel Bari Apprentice Gardener

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          There is always information on the Peats bag to say the origin of the contents. It also has BOGFRIENDLY moniker to specify it sourced from legitimate provider.
           
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          • Redwing

            Redwing Wild Gardener

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            Peat extraction is very damaging to our uplands and the horticultural use of peat is as damaging as for any other use. To say that the Irish use it to power their power stations (which they should not be doing, IMO) is not an excuse for gardeners and the horticultural trade to use it too.

            Make your own compost from garden waste or buy peat free ready made compost. That’s what we all should be doing to protect fragile and endangered habitats. Spending a bit more on alternatives is the right thing to do.
             
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              Last edited: Aug 21, 2020
            • WeeTam

              WeeTam Total Gardener

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              Ive had some good peat free from morrisons. I also add some leaf mold, grass clippings or homemade compost to it sometimes. I tend to reuse compost never throwing any away.

              If buying compost with peat i dont feel bad about it as my opinion is my garden does a lot more for nature than it takes away from it.
              Bee friendly,large pond,log piles,hedges,bird friendly etc etc etc.:)
               
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              • ARMANDII

                ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                I don't think I used the fact that the Irish have been using peat as fuel for their Power Stations in my post as a counter argument to the non use of Peat in compost:dunno::doh: I don't think anyone will say that Peat extract is, where ever it is extracted, is an ideal situation but my point was, and I thought I had put it fairly clearly, that at this present time there is not a viable answer to Peat added Compost in the form of Peat Free compost either as a growing medium and that the other problem is that what Peat free Compost is being market is expensive.

                Which is a fine sentiment:love30:, but doesn't recognise that the majority of gardeners don't even have space in their gardens for a Compost Heap, have the time or skills to turn actually turn garden waste into a useable form of growing medium, or can afford the loss of seedlings due to the fact that their homemade compost wasn't disease free, friable enough or had the correct nutrients in it. The average gardener wants success with his/her garden and, at the moment, the only marketed growing medium that they can buy in quantity and at an affordable price is not any Peat Free Compost medium being sold in the UK at this present time.

                Who can argue with that?, but it should be put into context in that Peat extraction in Scotland, Wales and England is almost non existent and is not being used for the mass production of Peat added Compost. The fact is that peat extraction on this Island is, because of our recognition that conservation and the protection of the environment is vital, is considered "politically incorrect" and there is a large agenda of Peat conservation and renewal by DEFRA.
                At the risk of repeating myself, when the Horticultural Industry produces a Peat free growing medium that the ordinary gardener can afford, while also knowing that it will perform as well as Peat added Compost, I will be the first to buy and use it. But, at the moment, it is not and I don't believe it is fair or correct to pressure the ordinary gardener, who is already well aware of the present situation regarding composts and it's environmental effects but has no choice but to buy Peat added Compost, by making them feel guilty or vandals because they have no choice. The pressure should be applied on the Horticultural Industry to produce an affordable Peat free compost and not one that only those who have a large wallet/Purse who still have to add other materials to make it a reasonable growing medium.
                We do not have average gardeners behaving as though they don't care about the environment as most of gardeners want to bring Nature into their gardens but are restricted by cost and availability in how and what they use.
                 
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                • ARMANDII

                  ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                  Granted, Shuyei, but the fact is that even Peat extracted from a "Bog Friendly" area by a legitimate provider is still frowned on by Peat Protection Organisations and, to be honest, there is no such thing as a "Bog Friendly" product if Peat is being extracted from it due to the fact that Peat takes such a long time to be made by Nature.:dunno:
                   
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                  • WoolyBack

                    WoolyBack Gardener

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                    In that case they are unlikely to need vast quantities of compost. The main problem with most peat free is drying out of surface compost but wet at bottom. So you need to be careful not to overwater which, if you only have a small garden is not such a big problem.

                    Or you could buy Dalefoots compost if you have supplier near or by delivery otherwise. Dear, but better than peat in my opinion and if it is your hobby not excessive. Also you save on fertilizer as generally is good for at least a year. Indeed, only today I bought 7 mixed bags of their compost from Garden Centre in Plumley, 30L bags @ £9 a bag which will do me for next year. £63 total. For which I'll hopefully get 100kg toms, lots of peppers, cucumbers, garlic, onions (50kg+ this year), a years supply of potatoes and much more as well as sweetpeas and sunflowers. I do use home-made compost that does for potatoes, onions and the like. Compost is my main outlay together with buying seeds (and I save my own as much as possible).

                    It may be nice for some wildlife in your garden but it is does harm wildlife when peat is extracted. 'Environmentalist say peat extraction in the UK not only disturbs rare wildlife which relies on it, such the golden plover and the chequered skipper butterfly, but also releases an estimated ...' A quote from the Telegraph but I can't see any more without paying.

                    There is no need to buy peat when there is so much information on the web of the harm is does to the environment where ever it is from.
                     
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                    • shiney

                      shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                      This is typical of discussions where both sides have cogent and legitimate arguments.

                      It reminds me of the discussion in 'Fiddler on the Roof' where Tevye (considered to be a wise man) was asked to adjudicate an argument between two people.

                      He turned to the first one and asked him to state his case. He listened carefully and after a few moments said to him "you're right".

                      He then turned to the second one and asked him to state his case. He then said to him "you're right too".

                      Someone in the crowd that was gathered round called out "you've said that they are both right. How can that be?".

                      To which Tevye said "you're right too!" shrugged, turned round and walked away.
                       
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                      • ARMANDII

                        ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                        I have tried Dalefoots compost along with several other composts, WoolyBack, and found it, despite the marketing blurb and my wanting it to be a success, to be less than poor and along with the others it needed more nutrients and additives to even get seedlings to push their heads out of it. Dalefoot compost costs around £10.50 for 30 litres, I can, and do, buy 125litres General Purpose Peat Added Compost for £6.49 OR 600 lltres for £80 and I know with the last two that I can be guaranteed good growth with my plants.
                        A good percentage of gardeners are of a "mature age" who's income is not great and they have to be ingenuous in the way they can garden to the full but they find the cost of Peat Free Compost to be beyond, for practical purposes, their income. I'm a member of several local Gardening Clubs which are suspended at the moment due to Covid 19, and all of the members in discussions in the past have said they would like to use Peat Free Compost but (a) there wasn't, they found, a comparable growing medium to Peat Added Compost and (b) the cost was beyond their abilities. One of the other points I heard was that they had bought the Peat Free Compost in good faith due to the Marketing claims of the Manufacturers and were more than disappointed and upset with the results as the failures cost them much needed money and, more valuable, time.

                        To be honest, I would argue that Wildlife (i.e: Insects such as Bees, Hover Flies, Wasps, Butterflies, Ants, Frogs, etc are not just "nice" to have in the garden but vital to ensure the general working structure of the environment around us and, perhaps, should be more prioritised than focusing on Peat extract which is less than minimal in Wales, Scotland, and England.

                        I think if you do a little research you will find that most Peat extraction is in Ireland, and not Northern Ireland. There is a very small, and I do mean small, amount of Peat being extracted in Scotland and the market for that are the Commercial Growers and none goes to the production of Peat added Compost for the general public. Those small extractors of Peat in the UK have to have a licence to operate and DEFRA is giving them a lifetime of 7 years and then extraction will cease. DEFRA cannot not do anything to stop the Irish extraction of Peat. The more we do to protect the Peat Bogs and, more importantly, the Wildlife from insects to mammals the better, but let's not sling the anchor of guilt around the average gardener but pressure the Horticultural Organisations to produce that much needed Peat Free Compost that, in reality, is not being produced as an equivalent to Peat Added compost.
                         
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                        • shiney

                          shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                          The standard of non-peat based compost, although improved, is still dire. A few of years ago we had a thread on here where I had complained to the supplier, and then the manufacturer, about the quality. The manufacturer actually flew over from Ireland to check what I was complaining about and then agreed that it was not good (my wording was 'useless') and took away my remaining 8 bags and replaced them with peat based compost and compensated me for the other 8 bags I had already used - the results of which (alongside the results from peat based product) showed the very poor to non-existent quality of the product.

                          They said they had been following EU guidelines for producing peat free compost and it was all supposed to have been through quality control. Apparently it had passed the factory test needed but obviously didn't survive actual practical use.

                          We are provided, each year, with a bag of 'new' peat free compost to try out alongside peat based product. So far, no competition. We use close to 6,000 litres per year as well as over two tons of our own garden compost. We do not use any chemicals at all on the garden but do use vine weevil killer on the pot plants that we sell for charity.

                          When they are able to produce an acceptable peat free product at an acceptable price I shall be first in the queue.

                          6,000 litres of the current peat free compost would mean the charity loses somewhere in excess of £600, not withstanding any possible loss of sales from the poorer result of growth of the plants.
                           
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                          • pete

                            pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                            To be honest I never really look if it has peat or not, but I do end up buying peat based.
                            I tend to stick to the ones I know.

                            Thing I can't get my head round is why is it so difficult to make a peat free compost that works and why should it cost more.

                            Just a suggestion, but is it us that needs retraining on how to use it properly ?

                            What do other parts of the world use where peat is not available?

                            When buying citrus plants,as an example, I notice that they are mostly in a soil based, even clayey kind of compost often with what looks like expanded clay granules.

                            I rarely use peat based for long term plants,I might add some.
                            But big pots of it is not my usual way.
                             
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                            • Redwing

                              Redwing Wild Gardener

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                              I am not going to answer each point individually. To me it is unacceptable to be extracting peat for horticultural use; it doesn’t matter which country it comes from it is still unacceptable. Habitat is being damaged somewhere by this practice.

                              I have bought very little peat in the last 10 years with only two exceptions. Earlier this year at the start of lockdown I bought four peat based growbags for my tomatoes because peat free ones were unavailable at that time and I thought I wouldn’t be able to get any any time soon. The other times I use peat is for seed sowing and even for that I use very little. I treat it like the precious commodity that it is and when I think I can get away with using peat free or well rotted manure and grit, that’s what I use. When I do use peat based for seed sowing I usually half fill the container with my own home made compost and top up with peat based compost. I am really trying to not use peat and for me a bag lasts a few years.

                              I am really quite shocked at how much peat some people have admitted to using. I have quite a big garden and I don’t think it has suffered in any way by using almost no peat.
                               
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                                Last edited: Aug 21, 2020
                              • Jiffy

                                Jiffy The Match is on Fire

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                                There is lots of different plants/woody bits that go into green waste bins which has to be pick up, then transpoted to compost company, they mix it with everything else so it's unknown as to how it will turn out, then you have to keep turning it, tis a lot of work, then you have the ones where it's done inside a shed and then the one's who do it out side were the weather can get at it,
                                Then it's done as Quick as possible to turn it from green's to compost

                                there was a compost shed a few miles away from here (closed now, had big grant to start up then when the time limit finished it shut :th scifD36:) greens going in + meat waste then compost out
                                 
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                                  Last edited: Aug 21, 2020
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