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Labour infighting

Discussion in 'The Muppet Show' started by clueless1, Jan 27, 2017.

  1. clueless1

    clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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    It was on the news earlier that Jeremy Corbyn has ordered his party to vote to support legislation to enable article 50 to be invoked.

    Several labour MPs have apparently refused, some resigning.

    Does anyone think the labour party are still credible? How can they possibly think it's OK to go against democracy, and fight amongst themselves, yet still ask people to vote for them to lead the country at the next general election? Are they from another planet?
     
  2. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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  3. Freddy

    Freddy Miserable git, well known for it

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    The moment Jeremy Corbyn was elected, the party (PLP) was divided. Might as well right them off for a few years. He (JC) might well be a well meaning and principled person, but he'll never strike a chord with the British public. Left-wing politics, while well meaning, are totally out of date with reality.
    Just my opinion :)
     
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    • JWK

      JWK Gardener Staff Member

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      As much as I dislike Labour and want to see them implode, I feel this is a disaster for democracy. MPs are there to represent their voters and should vote the same way as their constituency's did for Brexit.
       
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      • Freddy

        Freddy Miserable git, well known for it

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        And what of their conscience? Would you vote for something you didn't believe in? I wouldn't, and it seems others won't, which I imagine is why some have resigned.
        As for wanting a major party to implode, this is the real threat to democracy. Governments of any persuasion need to be held to account by the opposition.
         
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        • clueless1

          clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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          They are in a difficult position. On one hand, maybe their constituents voted remain. But on the other hand, this isn't about a local by election. Nationally, the people voted to leave. Voting to block that is to vote to block democracy. Quite ironic really. It is a tough situation, but surely that why they get paid so much. Because they have to shoulder a lot of responsibility.

          Of course they could always take their 60k plus per year while things are plain sailing and just run away when it gets tough. As we saw before, they can always beg for their jobs back when the dust settles.

          I think Jeremy Corbyn has shown a lot of integrity. Whether it was his intention or not I don't know, but he has given his MPs an easy out for their conscience. They could do as they were told and just blame it all on him. He did this despite being personally opposed to brexit, but recognising it's what the majority voted for.
           
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          • Freddy

            Freddy Miserable git, well known for it

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            Get paid so much? They're welcome to it. I get paid a bit more than half of that, for 7 hrs a day, 5 days a week. Once I 'clock out', that's me done, no hassle, no complaints, no being heckled in the street, or shot at.
             
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            • ARMANDII

              ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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              I've been working for the wrong companies!!:dunno::snorky:
               
            • Freddy

              Freddy Miserable git, well known for it

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              It's the going rate, for what I do, nothing special. Better than some, worse than some. For sure, I wouldn't want to be an MP!
               
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              • clueless1

                clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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                They get at least double what a soldier gets.

                One does a few hours admin work, maybe upsets a few people, and while there have been tragic cases of extremes, usually the worst the get is a bit of verbal abuse (which is unacceptable, but hardly the end of the world ). The other is paid half as much to actually go to places where people are actually trained to kill them, and have to work many hours a day in harsh conditions in order to fulfil the wishes of people who get paid substantially more than them.

                I agree that being an MP carries a lot if responsibility and some risk, but when compared with armed forces personnel or emergency services, or those in some of the more high risk manual jobs, they get extremely well compensated for what looks like not very much work or risk.
                 
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                • Freddy

                  Freddy Miserable git, well known for it

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                  Well, one could argue that I (as an aircraft fitter) hold the fate of hundreds in my hands, would you advocate me being paid as much as a surgeon?
                   
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                  • clueless1

                    clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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                    I'm not qualified to answer that.
                     
                  • wiseowl

                    wiseowl FRIENDLY ADMIN Staff Member

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                    Labour infighting

                    Its a sign of a healthy party :lunapic 130165696578242 5::lunapic 130165696578242 5:
                     
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                    • shiney

                      shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                      It's always difficult for politicians to make that sort of decision. They become members of their party and know the rules about a three-line whip and agree to follow them. It's the equivalent of a contract of employment. They have a problem when they are trying to balance their agreements, conscience and what they think their constituents want.

                      So it's their decision to accept the consequences. This can be an easy decision if they are older and near the end of their political life and difficult if they are younger and want to become a career politician. A normal consequence of going against a three-line whip is suspension from the Party and not expulsion. Suspension generally means little as they are still an MP and the party rarely take it any further (just a slap on the wrist). The resignation was from being a front bench member, not from the party.

                      Re pay, although some of them aren't worth it, a lot of them are quite good as constituency MP's and can be working well over 60 hours a week to try and do what their constituents want. Even working hard for individuals that didn't vote for them. I've known all our MP's for the last fifty years (from all parties) and although I haven't always agreed with their point of view they have slogged their guts out to try and do a good job.

                      I never try to compare pay in different sectors of society because the differences totally inexplicable and defy reason. It has always been that way and will always continue.

                      I have never earned half of that of an MP (but did have a company car :)) - but I had a terrible boss. :sad: :whistle: Everyone who worked with me was treated much better than me and worked less hours. :dunno: :heehee:
                       
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                      • Scrungee

                        Scrungee Well known for it

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                        That may change as JC hasn't yet decided whether he's going to change his mind or not.
                         
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