M 20 bridge cpllapse

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Jiffy, Aug 27, 2016.

  1. Jiffy

    Jiffy The Match is on Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    12,625
    Occupation:
    Pyro
    Location:
    Retired Next To The Bonfire in UK
    Ratings:
    +38,712
    And, if the lorry was doing 56 MPH the bridge wouldn't have droped on the front part of the trailor, to me he/she wasn't going fast ie 56 mph

    Pic from the net

    [​IMG]

    Some bridges will have expanion joints, also has the motorway been resurfed and the gap narrowed, one inch makes a lot of differents
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
      Last edited: Aug 28, 2016
    • Sandy Ground

      Sandy Ground Total Gardener

      Joined:
      Jun 10, 2015
      Messages:
      2,268
      Gender:
      Male
      Occupation:
      Making things of note.
      Location:
      Scania, Sweden
      Ratings:
      +5,373
      Looking at the photos that @fat controller posted, I'm inclined to think that the initial bridge design was either flawed or it was constructed incorrectly. An accident waiting to happen...

      Anyone have any idea how old that bridge is?
       
    • Fat Controller

      Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

      Joined:
      May 5, 2012
      Messages:
      29,804
      Gender:
      Male
      Occupation:
      Public Transport
      Location:
      At me 'puter, GCHQ Ashford Office, Middlesex
      Ratings:
      +57,222
      Not a clue @Sandy Ground - I would guess that it would be 70's or 80's, but it is purely a guess.
       
    • Fat Controller

      Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

      Joined:
      May 5, 2012
      Messages:
      29,804
      Gender:
      Male
      Occupation:
      Public Transport
      Location:
      At me 'puter, GCHQ Ashford Office, Middlesex
      Ratings:
      +57,222
      @shiney - I agree that it is likely to be a sectional build, and that is the joint we are looking at, but something has clearly gone wrong with that joint for the bridge to fail in the way that it has.

      As @Jiffy rightly points out, the downed section of bridge is sitting quite far forward on the trailer bed, and has essentially dropped immediately in front of the impact point - that, coupled with the lack of damage to the arm on the digger suggests to me that the knock from the digger was merely the cherry on the top of the cake.

      Here is a video showing numerous similar incidents on a bridge in America - essentially those that involve diggers on low loaders clip the bridge - for a bridge to give up with a clip like that, it has got to be weak?

       
      • Like Like x 1
      • shiney

        shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

        Joined:
        Jul 3, 2006
        Messages:
        67,286
        Gender:
        Male
        Occupation:
        Retired - Last Century!!!
        Location:
        Herts/Essex border. Zone 8b
        Ratings:
        +134,163
        An interesting video.

        It appears as though all those vehicles only just clipped the bridge. It seems to me, knowing nothing about large vehicles, that the drivers expected their vehicles to go through with no trouble. As it seems logical that most bridges are built so that normal heavy goods vehicles can go through, It appears that the headroom signs are either wrong or non-existent or that the bridge is marginally lower than would be expected. Otherwise, why have the camera on that particular bridge?

         
        • Like Like x 1
        • Fat Controller

          Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

          Joined:
          May 5, 2012
          Messages:
          29,804
          Gender:
          Male
          Occupation:
          Public Transport
          Location:
          At me 'puter, GCHQ Ashford Office, Middlesex
          Ratings:
          +57,222
          The comments on the video said that it had been hit so many times, they decided to start monitoring the damage; it appears that it was being hit a lot more than they had even imagined, and it was the video showed it up.

          I'm not saying that the driver of the lorry is completely innocent - he may well have some responsibility for either having an overheight load, or was driving incorrectly (on the hard shoulder for example); BUT, I do not believe that the amount of damage that was caused tallies with the damage to the digger on the back of that lorry - at the least, you would expect the arm to be bent, twisted or kinked; instead, it merely has some concrete dust on it and maybe a few scratches on the face of the arm.
           
        • clueless1

          clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

          Joined:
          Jan 8, 2008
          Messages:
          17,778
          Gender:
          Male
          Location:
          Here
          Ratings:
          +19,601
          If there was some free play in the digger, then would it not have effectively been like a giant sledgehammer? I can plough a sledgehammer straight onto concrete and the concrete will break without any damage at all being sustained by the hammer. The head of my sledgehammer weighs about 2kg I think, and it will typically be doing maybe 10mph at the moment of impact. If you multiply the masses and velocities it's easy to imagine that a digger striking at 50mph could be enough to destroy a foot bridge.
           
          • Useful Useful x 1
          • Fat Controller

            Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

            Joined:
            May 5, 2012
            Messages:
            29,804
            Gender:
            Male
            Occupation:
            Public Transport
            Location:
            At me 'puter, GCHQ Ashford Office, Middlesex
            Ratings:
            +57,222
            I'm still not overly convinced - I have seen a lot of bridge strikes over the years (went with the territory for my last job), and still think that any bridge should be able to withstand a clip from a digger arm without collapsing.
             
          • clueless1

            clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

            Joined:
            Jan 8, 2008
            Messages:
            17,778
            Gender:
            Male
            Location:
            Here
            Ratings:
            +19,601
            One would hope they are sufficiently over engineered to take the occasional accidental wallop without collapsing. Perhaps there are multiple factors at play. That said, I have seen a much more solid bridge than that (a railway bridge) rendered unsafe and needing a partial rebuild after a bus struck it at relatively low speed.
             
            • Informative Informative x 1
            • Kimberley

              Kimberley Gardener

              Joined:
              Aug 22, 2016
              Messages:
              133
              Gender:
              Female
              Occupation:
              Telephonist and a Dance Teacher
              Location:
              West Midlands
              Ratings:
              +141
              Saw the pictures on TV I used to work for a company that made bridges the Thermal Viaduct being one and the Milfield Avon Bridge. I just wonder how long that bridge has been there??
               
            • pete

              pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

              Joined:
              Jan 9, 2005
              Messages:
              56,480
              Gender:
              Male
              Occupation:
              Retired
              Location:
              Mid Kent
              Ratings:
              +110,278
              I get the feeling, looking at the pics of the downed section of bridge, we are looking at the wrong end, we are looking at the joint, which appears to be intact.
              More interesting would be the other end of the downed section where the digger hit it and possibly the condition of the joint in question that is still up there.

              Got a feeling that part of the motorway was widened back in the 80s, :scratch: when all bridges were widened or replaced.

              I've seen quite a few pedestrian bridges with that kind of half lap joint, centre section just lowered into place.
               
              • Like Like x 2
              • silu

                silu gardening easy...hmmm

                Joined:
                Oct 20, 2010
                Messages:
                3,682
                Gender:
                Female
                Location:
                Igloo
                Ratings:
                +8,083
                Asked daughter's boyfriend about the bridge incident, he is a Class 1 lorry driver and owns a fleet of 10 lorries so knows a fair bit about motorways. His opinion is that he has seen dozens and dozens of foot bridges with the same what would appear to be cracks in them. He says it's not a crack but is where the section of bridge is slotted in and yes would be the weakest part of the bridge and "go" if belted by as clueless describes it a sledgehammer. At the same time it is only a footpath and designed as such.He also isn't surprised that the damage to the bridge is large but not much to the digger.
                He is wondering if either the low loader driver was on the hard shoulder either because he could sense the loader was breaking down or realised the digger arm wasn't in the right position and intended to do something about it and drove onto the shoulder.
                In any event he is fairly sure the owners of the loader and possibly the driver too are in big trouble unless they can prove they were not at fault. It costs £1000s and £1000s to just cone off 1 lane of a motorway evidently far less close 1 whole carriageway. Hopefully the company is very well insured as the final costs involved to repair the bridge etc will no doubt run into millions.
                 
                • Like Like x 2
                • Informative Informative x 2
                • JWK

                  JWK Gardener Staff Member

                  Joined:
                  Jun 3, 2008
                  Messages:
                  34,050
                  Gender:
                  Male
                  Location:
                  Surrey
                  Ratings:
                  +54,094
                  Looking at the photos that looks like an expansion joint, so the bridge can expand and contract in hot weather without buckling.

                  We drove home along down the M6/M1 last night and were carefully looking at each footbridge, there doesn't seem to be two alike which seems crazy - you'd think they would have a common design. Many of them have expansion joints with couple of inch gaps.

                  Have to say we were very careful not to go drive under the bridge at the same time as any lorry carrying construction equipment.
                   
                  • Like Like x 4
                  Gardeners Corner is dependent on Donation to keep running, if you enjoy using Gardeners Corner, please consider donating to help us with our operating costs.
                  Loading...

                  Share This Page

                  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
                    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
                    Dismiss Notice