New Lawn laying over where Patio Used to be!

Discussion in 'Lawns' started by Chris Brown, Jun 6, 2018.

  1. Chris Brown

    Chris Brown Apprentice Gardener

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2018
    Messages:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +10
    Hello all,

    I'm looking to lay a lawn (from turf) into my back yard where a patio used to be. The patio was sitting on a hardcore base. I have lifted the patio last year but then other more urgent work came up so have put off the lawn until now. I still need to lift the hardcore.

    What I was wondering was (and I know this is difficult to answer with the information I have provided I'm just looking for a rough nudge int he right direction) what kind of quality soil I have under the hardcore given that what used to be a patio is now covered in patches of a kind of grass like substance, thistles, nettles and a few other weeds which I can't identify. I will admit I have let it get away from me.

    My plan was to clear the space, lift the hardcore, rotavate what soil is under there and then lay some top soil on top of that heel it in and put the turf on top does this seem sensible, and what depth of top soil would people generally recommend for this kind of situation.

    As an additional note I was planning on using rolawn turf - just wondering what opinions people had on this?

    The yard is 48 by 30 foot so if I need to lay 150mm of top soil that is a lot of soil I need and given then it's growing a lot of "Stuff" at the moment I thought I'd as for some advice first.

    Sorry if this has been posted before I'm sure there are similar threads but google didn't really give me much.

    Thanks & Kind Regards,

    Chris
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • JWK

      JWK Gardener Staff Member

      Joined:
      Jun 3, 2008
      Messages:
      30,677
      Gender:
      Male
      Location:
      Surrey
      Ratings:
      +45,614
      Welcome to the forum Chris.

      I think it's impossible to answer what sort of soil may lay underneath the hardcore. It's dependent on so many things, the builder who made the patio may have laid the hardcore directly over the top of the existing soil (unlikely) or scraped off the topsoil down the the subsoil level (more likely). If the site is on a slope maybe the builder graded the existing soil to make it level?

      It's a good sign that nettles are growing there as they like a high fertility soil, so there is likely to be something good underneath.

      You need to dig a couple of holes to see for yourself, take some photos of it so we can help.

      Then you'll be able to estimate the volume of top soil you need to add to get it to whatever proposed level you want.
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Informative Informative x 1
      • Chris Brown

        Chris Brown Apprentice Gardener

        Joined:
        Jun 6, 2018
        Messages:
        7
        Gender:
        Male
        Ratings:
        +10
        Thank you JWK I thought that might be the case what with me painting half a picture.

        I took a couple of pictures last night (please don't judge me I did say I let it get out of control) :)

        This is the various fauna that is growing in there at the moment (there are nettles in there somewhere my legs will attest to that)

        [​IMG]

        [​IMG]

        [​IMG]

        And I dug a little hole too, it looks like hard core, sand and then soil which is fairly rocky

        [​IMG]

        I can dig a bigger hole if need be.

        Kind Regards,

        Chris
         
        • Like Like x 1
        • JWK

          JWK Gardener Staff Member

          Joined:
          Jun 3, 2008
          Messages:
          30,677
          Gender:
          Male
          Location:
          Surrey
          Ratings:
          +45,614
          Hi Chris, I think you need to go down about 18" to see what is there. That looks all hardcore and substrate.

          What level are you going to achieve with the new lawn? It will obviously cost more to remove all the hardcore etc so only remove what you need to.
           
          • Like Like x 1
          • Useful Useful x 1
          • Chris Brown

            Chris Brown Apprentice Gardener

            Joined:
            Jun 6, 2018
            Messages:
            7
            Gender:
            Male
            Ratings:
            +10
            Hi John, Thanks for the reply. I will dig to that depth after work and get a picture.

            To be honest (it's probably blindingly obvious) this is my first gardening / landscaping project so am completely new to most of this. In order to lay turf I (think) I need to remove all the Hard core so in order to get it back up to level I would need to replace that with some kind of earth and and then top soil on top of that.

            The lawn isn't by any means going to be a bowling green I just want grass for the kids and dogs - does that make any difference to what I would need to do at all?

            Kind Regards,

            Chris
             
            • Like Like x 1
            • JWK

              JWK Gardener Staff Member

              Joined:
              Jun 3, 2008
              Messages:
              30,677
              Gender:
              Male
              Location:
              Surrey
              Ratings:
              +45,614
              Yes that's good information, and I guess you don't have unlimited budget so you don't want to remove stuff unnecessarily. As long as the biggest rubble chunks are removed you may get away with a few inches of imported topsoil.
               
              • Like Like x 1
              • Informative Informative x 1
              • Gail_68

                Gail_68 Guest

                Ratings:
                +0
                • Like Like x 1
                  Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2018
                • Chris Brown

                  Chris Brown Apprentice Gardener

                  Joined:
                  Jun 6, 2018
                  Messages:
                  7
                  Gender:
                  Male
                  Ratings:
                  +10
                  I dug a bit deeper and took some photos.

                  [​IMG]

                  [​IMG]

                  [​IMG]

                  Kind Regards,

                  Chris
                   
                  • Like Like x 1
                  • JWK

                    JWK Gardener Staff Member

                    Joined:
                    Jun 3, 2008
                    Messages:
                    30,677
                    Gender:
                    Male
                    Location:
                    Surrey
                    Ratings:
                    +45,614
                    That looks good to me. On top it looks like a couple of inches of sand, underneath that another couple of inches of small stones/hardcore. Underneath that looks like a good rich dark peaty soil.

                    Where is your location Chris? Only asking as that's an unusual soil type and rather than being peat it may be a loamy clay . You can check your soil type here by putting in your postcode:
                    Soilscapes soil types viewer - National Soil Resources Institute. Cranfield University

                    What is probably your main priority is to get rid of any weeds before they produce seeds which will come up later and spoil your new lawn.

                    If you don't mind chemicals then spray with a weedkiller that kills everything it touches, something containing glyphosate (often called Roundup) like this:
                    Roundup Fast Action Weedkiller 1L | Wilko

                    Or pull up by hand anything that has already flowered and is seeding.

                    It doesn't look like a big job to me, I'd be tempted to handpick the worse bigger lumps of hardcore then rotavate as you originally suggested to mix up the sand with some of the soil underneath. Then add some topsoil - I doubt you would need 150mm of topsoil - you could get away with less.
                     
                    • Like Like x 1
                    • Informative Informative x 1
                    • JWK

                      JWK Gardener Staff Member

                      Joined:
                      Jun 3, 2008
                      Messages:
                      30,677
                      Gender:
                      Male
                      Location:
                      Surrey
                      Ratings:
                      +45,614
                      If you do use a weedkiller make sure you choose a still day and keep the spray away from any other plants - and read the label. Sorry if you knew that - I am pointing out the obvious.
                       
                      • Like Like x 1
                      • Informative Informative x 1
                      • Chris Brown

                        Chris Brown Apprentice Gardener

                        Joined:
                        Jun 6, 2018
                        Messages:
                        7
                        Gender:
                        Male
                        Ratings:
                        +10
                        John,

                        Thank you so much for taking the time to reply with so much detail. I live in Carlisle that map (Awesome resource btw) suggests my soil is "Slowly permeable seasonally wet slightly acid but base-rich loamy and clayey soils" is that bad?

                        Kind Regards,

                        Chris
                         
                        • Like Like x 1
                        • JWK

                          JWK Gardener Staff Member

                          Joined:
                          Jun 3, 2008
                          Messages:
                          30,677
                          Gender:
                          Male
                          Location:
                          Surrey
                          Ratings:
                          +45,614
                          That is a very good soil especially for grass plus all the rainfall you get in Carlisle will help establish a good lawn. Your soil looks nice and deep so I'm sure you should have no problems in the long run.

                          I have no experience about which turf to use, I guess rolawn will be good as it is a well known brand but probably expensive. There are some folk on here with proper experience @Liz the pot may be able to help with Topsoil and Turf selection.
                           
                          • Friendly Friendly x 2
                          • Like Like x 1
                          • Chris Brown

                            Chris Brown Apprentice Gardener

                            Joined:
                            Jun 6, 2018
                            Messages:
                            7
                            Gender:
                            Male
                            Ratings:
                            +10
                            John,

                            You are filling me with a lot of confidence here. Thank you very very much for all your time, effort and help.

                            I will be sure to post some pictures once done!

                            Thank you again!

                            Kind Regards,

                            Chris
                             
                            • Friendly Friendly x 2
                            • Like Like x 1
                            • Ned

                              Ned Evaporated

                              Joined:
                              Apr 25, 2017
                              Messages:
                              2,309
                              Occupation:
                              Prime Minister
                              Location:
                              The Moon
                              Ratings:
                              +5,404
                              I suppose that`s just the kinda guy he is :love30:.......:heehee:
                               
                              • Like Like x 3
                              • Friendly Friendly x 1
                              • Liz the pot

                                Liz the pot Total Gardener

                                Joined:
                                Jul 1, 2015
                                Messages:
                                1,042
                                Gender:
                                Male
                                Ratings:
                                +1,259
                                Pop along to your local landscape merchant and see what they stock.
                                They will have all you need in regards to soil and turfs. Avoid any turf that has wire in it though.
                                Worth noting some years are better than others with turf but generally it’s ok.
                                 
                                • Informative Informative x 2
                                • Friendly Friendly x 1
                                Loading...

                                Share This Page

                                1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
                                  By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
                                  Dismiss Notice