Planting advice needed please

Discussion in 'Gardening Discussions' started by Nor, Dec 17, 2019.

  1. Nor

    Nor Apprentice Gardener

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    Hi

    I'm new to the forum and would like some advice about planting climbers on an arch.

    I was thinking of training the climbers in large pots to grow over the arch, one pot on each side of the arch, with maybe two climbers in each pot.

    I have attached a picture of the arch below. I am aware that plants grow better in the ground but as you can see from the picture, one side of the arch is against paving so I can only plant in a pot on that side. Do you think I can maybe just grow the climbers on one side in the ground and they will spread to the other side of the arch?

    I would like fragrant plants in whites and pink/purple, including roses. I would like some evergreen plants so that the arch is covered in winter too. Ideally I would like the roses to be thornless.

    I was considering:

    star jasmine with rosa gertrude on one side

    rosa madame alfred Carriere on the other side

    Do you recommend planting two plants together on one side? And will my plant suggestions be suitable for my conditions? Do you have any other suggestions please?

    As you can see from the picture, the arch is in an open, exposed area. I live in the North of England so we have frosts in the winter.

    I would greatly appreciate your assistance.

    Thank you

    IMG_20191124_113206.jpg
     
  2. Mike Allen

    Mike Allen Total Gardener

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    Hello Nor. Welcom to Gardeners Corner. Looking at your photo. Depending upon what lies beneath the gravel, if soil, then perhaps there is enough space to plant into the soil.

    When growing most plants, shrubs etc in pots/containers, some extra TLC is called for. Often frequent feeding and a careful eye on watering.

    Star Jasmin- Trachelosperman jasminoides. This is a rampant grower and needs to be kept in check. Yes it can be grown close to roses but due to its often clinging growth habit, it can take over and choke the rose etc. I'd advise cutting it well back if and when it becomes too much. I assume Rose Gertrude, you refer to Gertrude Jekyll. Fabulous rose this this, very fragrant. I have always found careful and sometimes drastic pruning. Otherwise you end up with all top growth and bare lower parts. Rosa. Madam Alfred Carriere, a wonderful might I say, old rose.

    When planting. Try and dig out as much soil as you can. Add well rotted maure and/or leaf mould. If spcae is limited. Give thought to containers minus their bases. This will allow the main, stronger roots to get down into the soil.

    Keep an eye on new growth and don't be afraid to prune. Keep all growth tied in. Not being despondant but keep an eye also upon the metalwork of the arch.
    Best wishes.
     
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    • Nor

      Nor Apprentice Gardener

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      Hi Mike and thank you for the response and useful information.

      Yes there is soil under the gravel. I was thinking maybe grow directly in the soil and on the paving side, plant on the sides of the arch. Do you think there is enough room there to plant?

      I would prefer to plant directly into the ground due to the reasons you gave about the extra tlc for pots.

      I might leave out the jasmine as it sounds like it might take over. I just thought as it's evergreen, the arch won't be bare during the winter. Can you maybe suggest another climber that will go with the roses and is evergreen?

      Or do you think one rose on either side will give enough coverage?

      Thank you for your help
       
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      • Mike Allen

        Mike Allen Total Gardener

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        Just my choice. I'd stick to just the roses.
         
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        • ricky101

          ricky101 Total Gardener

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          Hi,

          Also think a climbing rose will be too much for that small but attractive archway, plus with it being narrow any strong plants growing up and over and you will find it hard to walk through without constantly being scratched by the thorns,

          Think something more managable like a shub rose or more supple plants like sweet peas or clematis which also have winter flowering varieties.

          Rather than trying to have such plants looking attractive over winter, which can be a big ask, some tasteful led lights over the arch could look good ...?

          Not sure what that narrow bed of soil to the left of the gravel is for ? just seems to go against the symmetry of the very nice looking paving design ? plus it looks like you already have a large bed for other plants ?

          Think we would put more robust plants like climing roses up against the wall and fence which seem the perfect place for such plants, provided it gets at least a few hours of good sunshine ?
           
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          • Nor

            Nor Apprentice Gardener

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            I'm going to plant a row of lavender or formal shrubs in that narrow bed with contrast gravel. I've added another picture below to show the full garden.

            That wall and fence is north facing and is shaded by the neighbors tree, so it doesn't get any sun.

            Your suggestion about shrub roses is definitely something to think about. The arch is not really very stable anyway so I think something lighter like a clematis might be better, and maybe two shrub roses either side of the arch in pots. I was concerned about the roses overgrowing into the small arch, so I am definitely warming to the idea of smaller shrub roses now. And a scented clematis climbing around the arch, planted directly into the ground maybe?

            I really appreciate the advice, it's very helpful.
             

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          • Selleri

            Selleri Super Gardener

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            Hi Nor, welcome! :sign0016:

            Evergreen honeysuckle Lonicera Henryi is a great, tough climber and can tolerate more or less anything. It might even be happy against the north facing wall. I have grown it successfully in a 40cm container, it didn't mind at all. Now i have some growing up my bird feeding pole. It's also cheap to buy as a small plant (Morrisons supermarkets usually have it in the spring for a Pound or so) and is very easy to propagate if you want to experiment with the wall. It is quite vigorous and would grow over the arch in one summer, but container will restrict it.

            Small Clematis would definitely add seasonal interest, perhaps you could fit in early and late flowering ones?

            Last summer I got some Rosa Climbing Iceberg and am very happy with them. I have two in ground growing up obelisks and one in a 50cm container, all are doing very well. I'll have to think about the one in container as it probably can't live there forever...

            Your garden looks very classy, it will be a showstopper with planting. :dbgrtmb:
             
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            • Nor

              Nor Apprentice Gardener

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              Hi Selleri
              Thank you for the useful advice. I will consider the honeysuckle for the arch. I haven't had success in growing anything against that wall in the past, apart from ivy.

              I also considered Rosa iceberg before deciding on the Rosa Alfred Carriere, just because the later seemed to be more scented.

              thank you!
               
            • ricky101

              ricky101 Total Gardener

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              Hi again,

              We planted a 10 mtr row of lavender, Hidocte we think ( memory!), but might have been Munstead, unless you buy larger pot grown plants, expensive, they do take a good couple of years to grow together to create a mass display.

              However, as we recently mentioned in another post, they look good when in flower for 2-3 months, but the rest of the year they do not look that attractive, particularly when trimmed back as you need to do after flowering, though perhaps some of the other varieties may look better when not in flower ?

              We also planted some Shrub roses and a Climbing Iceberg earlier this year , the pot grown Iceberg grew very well, over 8ft this season alone, fairly lax stems that need support/ tying in.

              We got some mail order bare rooted Shrub roses, but really small first year plants , they survived and a few flowers, but need a couple more years to make anything like a decent plant, so suggest you buy pot grown ones you can see are good sized and sturdy plants.

              Clematis not a plant many associate with scent, though seems the big clematis suppliers do have them, but just a couple of sweet peas either side of your arch will fill that area with a gorgeous heavy scent all summer long.

              Clematis prefer a cool root run so apart from a small area for the stems to come through they could almost be fully covered by the flags or gravel.

              For your north facing wall and fence a couple of Fuchsias might help, we find Mrs Popple, up to 4ft high and Lady Boothby 6-8ft do well in full or semi shade, both ok in the border or large pots.
               
            • Nor

              Nor Apprentice Gardener

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              Thank you everyone for the excellent advice. I have decided to go for two shrub roses in pots either side of the arch (iceberg and Gertrude Jekyll I think) and will add sweet peas to climb up the arch in the spring.

              I will also rethink the row of lavender and maybe plant other small shrubs in that border, which give colour and interest all through the season.

              You've also given me some great ideas for my north facing wall.
               
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              • ricky101

                ricky101 Total Gardener

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                You might find a look around this seed catalogue helpful as they do lots of Sweet Peas at good prices, and even little collections like this one. ( we have used them for years)
                Kings Seeds - Flower Seeds - A leading supplier of flower seeds | Kings - kingsseeds.com

                Try and have a look around some garden centers and actually see some Lavender plants and what you think of them as a long row this time of year, they look a bit better in mid spring onwards when the new growth starts, but then by mid to late summer all the flowers are gone and you need to clip back to keep in shape/size.

                So many small perannial plants would go in that narrow boarder and enjoy spilling over onto the gravel, using a mix of plants and even bulbs will give you a long season of colour.

                If you want a more regimented appearance of a single type, think the small varieties of Euonymous will give all year round colour with its bright foliage.


                000031.jpg
                 
              • Nor

                Nor Apprentice Gardener

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                Thanks Ricky 101, I'll have a look at the link you sent for sweet peas. I've been looking at the David Austin website for the roses and the pot grown ones are expensive.

                I have only really seen lavender at garden centres when it's in flower, but yes I will check it out at other times and see if it's suitable. I want the calming scent of lavender in the garden and the silvery leaves do I definitely want a few plants, but will add others that look good all year around. I was possibly thinking Hebes, I saw them on a garden programme and they looked nice. My husband wants a clean structured look and wanted buxus balls but the front garden has enough of those already so no more buxus. We also have a few clipped euynonymous at the front so I didn't really want more of those either. But looking at your pics, there are many varieties of euynonymous so it's worth thinking about. I wanted a different colour, not green.
                 
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