Poppies - Anyone Know Why This Happens ?

Last May, I bought a packet of Ladybird poppy (Papaver commutatum) seeds while visiting Gardening Scotland.
I did sow a few seeds directly into the soil in early June, but only one plant grew. I was looking forward to the deep red flowers with black spots, so was surprised when the first flower to open was red and white (poppy in my avatar pic). Before any more buds could open though, the plant got broken in strong winds one night.
So, I cut the remaining buds off the broken stems and put them in a vase indoors.
The next bud to open was an orangey red and white, then I had one very pale pink and white, with the last bud opening into a pure white flower.
I did contact the nursery I had bought the seed from. They had grown the poppies themselves and the seed was collected from those plants. They told me that they didn't have and have never had any other poppies, only the Ladybird poppies.
They told me that sometimes, flowers do mutate and are different to how they should be.
I'm not aware that P. commutatum comes in any other colour, just deep red with black spots at the base of each petal.
Last September, I'd sown more seed into a 2 litre pot. I overwintered the resulting seedlings in my little mini greenhouse. One of those plastic "blowaway" things which had both a fleece cover to protect from frost and the reinforced plastic cover on.
I planted the contents of this 2l pot (10 plants) out in May, all together in one clump as I'd read that poppies resent root disturbance.

The first flowers to appear were the deep red with black spots as this poppy should be.
Then a couple of weeks ago, a pink flower opened. That was followed by another pink one, identical to the first, and another identical flower opened today.

When I went over to have a close look, I noticed two more flowers had opened and were different again.
This time, one flower was an orangey red with black spots...but it has a very fine line of white around the edges of each black spot. The petals are a solid orangey red.
The other flower was a deep red, but not as deep as the "normal" shade. This one has the black spots typical of the Ladybird poppy, but it has a more defined white edge around each black spot and a white edge around the outer edge of the top of the petals. I did notice though that the black spots on these two flowers isn't as black as the "normal" Ladybird poppy. It is more of a very dark brownish purple rather than the solid black spots the poppies should have.

Now, I have a basic understanding of animal genetics, so I was wondering if anyone knows if plants have dominant, recessive and dilute genes in the same way as, e.g. I had a pony a number of years ago which looked black. Certain things made me wonder if she carried the Cream gene...which was confirmed when she produced a palomino (golden/yellowy body with a creamy white mane and tail) foal after being mated with a bay (reddish brown with black mane and tail) stallion. A normal black to bay mating can not produce palomino so one parent has to have passed a copy of the cream gene, which is a dilute gene, to produce a palomino foal. My pony wasn't black, she was a smoky black or genetically black + cream. The bay stallion had never, ever sired any dilute offspring, but my pony did have dilute relatives including half brothers and sisters.
Sorry about the horse essay
I was just wondering if plant genes are similar and have dilute genes too ? Does anyone know why my poppies are a different colour to the standard deep red with black spots, and do you think I could grow more of these non-standard "Ladybird" poppies ?

Thanks in advance

Anyway, here are a couple of photos so that you can see how these "Ladybird" poppies look.
First photo is the clump of poppies growing together. The others are my "different" Ladybird poppies - ALL from the same seed packet - Papaver commutatum "Ladybird".
Clump of poppies.


Pink & white "Ladybird" poppy.


Orangey Red "Ladybird" poppy with white edged black spots.


Red "Ladybird" poppy with white edged black spots and white outer edges.


One of last year's "Ladybird" poppies just opening.


Last year's pale pink & white "Ladybird" poppy.

 

There's a possibility that the original poppies were hybrids, in other words a cross between two different poppies. If this is so then the poppies you are seeing from your seed could be from those parent or grandparent plants which have reverted back. Seed doesn't necessarily come true, but cuttings or splitting the plant at it's roots would.

 

Thank you Sheal. I'll have a go at taking cuttings then. Never done it before but I have a good book (RHS Encyclopedia Of Gardening) that has lots of pictorial "how to" information for gardening techniques.
I'll save seed too once the pods are ripe, just to see what happens.

 

If they are annual poppies then there is no point in taking cuttings as they will probably die. If they are perennials it's best to let them make up some growth and then split them at the roots. Saving the seed is a good idea. I always start the seed of annual poppies off in trays of mpc early spring as I find they stand a better chance of germinating.

 

I'm not sure if they are annuals or not. When I've done searches to find out about them, I've seen them described as annuals on some sites but perennials on others.
They are Papaver commutatum - Caucasian scarlet poppy. I know that they don't tolerate winter wet, so I'd imagine they would be grown as annuals here.
The plants I have just now are from seed I'd sown last autumn in a pot. I used a mixture of mpc, coir and perlite. The mpc I used had been sitting in an opened bag for several months and got soaked a few times in heavy rain before I put the bag in my shed. The seeds germinated fairly quickly but the seedlings then stayed small over winter. I kept them in my little blowaway mini growhouse, with a fleece cover on it inside the plastic cover, and watered them sparingly. They then started puting on growth from February onwards and were big enough to plant out in early May.

 

I would say they are annuals but it's worthwhile leaving them in the ground to see if they re-shoot next year, that will prove the point either way.

It would probably be better to sow the seeds in mid to late February. Most seedlings will struggle through the winter months through lack of light and become leggy.

 

That's a good idea. Leave them where they are over winter but protect them from the wettest weather. They are fairly sheltered where they are because I had a new 6 foot high fence put up around the garden this spring. That will keep the worst of the wind off them. I have one of those tomato growhouses, so that can sit over the poppies so that they don't get destroyed by icy winter rain. I'll leave the door open though and I'll tie it very securely to my fence.
They are in a sunny, west facing border. The soil is sandy loam and is neutral/slightly alkaline. I dug mpc and coir into that border last summer to add some organic matter. Should I put a mulch around the bottom ?
I'm keeping a very close eye on the seed pods so that I can snip off any as soon as the top shows signs of opening. That will hopefully stop any self seeding so that I know whether or not the poppies will survive over winter.
I've loosely tied labels around the stems of the non standard flowers, with a shorthand description of the flower colour so that I know which seed pods are from the pink or red with white flowers.
There's another pink flower ready to open, but this one looks like it will be pink with black spots instead of the pink & white I've had so far.
I read an article online a couple of days ago about plant biology. There was a study carried out on breeding poppies. I'll have another look to see what the article was.
It was noted in this study that poppies can't interbreed with other poppy species..e.g. P. somniferum can be pollinated with other P. somniferum but not with P. rhoeas or P. orientale and vice versa. The person/people who carried out this study did breeding trials to see if poppies could be successfully interbred. Some of the seed from these trials was sterile, some flowers didn't produce any seed at all and some had very poor germination but the seedlings didn't survive, plus lots more that I can't remember.
These were trials carried out in a controlled environment so that the findings were accurate.
All very interesting.
The closest likeness I've seen to my non-red P. commutatum is the Shirley poppy...but that is P. rhoeas.

 

After more searching I have found out that the Ladybird poppy was originally developed by Wm Thompson, founder of Thompson & Morgan, from a poppy species he introduced from Russia in 1876.
I have sent an email to T&M to see if I can find out more about the original parent plants .

Meanwhile, here is the latest bud which should open in the next day or so. Appears to be pink & white with black spots.

 

There is no need to cover the poppies or give them any special treatment this winter. They will die back and if they are perennials will re-shoot next spring. They are also happy growing in poor soil. I have sandy soil and they have been fine in that without any added nutrients in the past.

You don't have to wait on the seed pods either. If you give them a shake while they are still attached to the plant they may or may not rattle. If they do then the seeds are ripe and the pods are ready to snip off. I've also taken pods before ripening and left them on a sunny window sill to dry out. Perhaps you could do both as an experiment.

 

That's interesting re the seed pods Sheal, thank you.
All of the pods from the earliest red & black poppies are quite swollen now, so I'll try some of those on the window sill. The pods from the pink poppies are nowhere near ready though so I'll leave those on the plant.
I've been shaking the older seed pods every day now to listen for any seeds rattling inside. No rattling yet though.
I'm reading through posts on another forum just now. It's one that is dedicated to P. somniferum.
One of the threads I've read is about colour genetics and one poster mentioned that the seeds from flowers with a dark basal spot are dark coloured, and seeds from flowers with a white basal spot are light coloured.
I'm going to look through the Ladybird poppy seed I bought to see if there's any difference in colour, then at the right time of year, sow and dark and light seeds separately to see if there's a difference in the flower colour. That could explain why, in a clump of 10 poppies, the ones with pink or red & white flowers appear to be all growing from one plant.
That's a job for tomorrow - follow the stems from the pink flowers and the 2 red ones with white down to the base to see if they are all on one plant

 

You're a glutton for punishment CreakyJoints but I suppose it's one of those things that when you start you need to see it through. Good luck!

 

Being stuck in the house most of the time due to having arthritis, this is giving me something to do rather than dwell on my painful, swollen joints. It has been raining here all day so I wasn't even able to do anything in the garden.
My dog is keeping me entertained though...she keeps picking things up and bringing them to me, hoping I'll give her a treat. She is on a diet just now and is constantly wanting food.
I suppose that's one of the downsides of training her to help me...she keeps chucking shoes at me

 

I have two forms of arthritis too and it's not easy trying to look after the gardens, so I understand how difficult it is for you.

Your dog sounds like a lot of fun, it's some years since I've had one, perhaps I'll have another one some day.

 

Sorry to hear that Sheal.
Some days you feel like you can do a lot, but then you suffer for days afterwards. Other days, you struggle to get around in the house so any gardening is not possible.
I find that cold damp weather and hot humid weather affects my joints most.
I have OA in my spine and both sacroiliac joints and seropositive RA which affects my hands, elbows, hips, knees and feet.
My dog is ace.
She is an 11 year old Staffie and I trained her to help me when I was first diagnosed with arthritis in 2007.
She picks things up for me if I drop them and she brings things to me when I ask her to. Other than that, she is so full of character and cheekiness that she often acts like she is a puppy.
I got her when she was 18 months old and wasn't even trained to walk properly on a lead, now, she's my assistance dog .

As for my poppies, I accidentally knocked the petals off the pink flower before it opened.
Don't know if it will work but I picked the stamens out from the folded petals and dabbed them on the disc on top of that flower's seed pod.
I brought the petals indoors and carefully opened them. As I thought, they are pink with a white centre, with a black spot on the white base of each petal.
That would have been beautiful to see open on the plant.
One more "non-standard" flower opened today too. This is another red one with black spots, white edging around each spot and white edging on the outer edge of the petals.
Fingers crossed I get another pink flower with black spots

 

Your dog certainly sounds helpful. Staffies are not very popular now because of bad press in the past but they are such friendly, happy dogs which most terriers are.

It sounds like you've got a whole bouquet of different colours now, you'll have to wait and see what next year brings you.