Sorbus Help

Discussion in 'Trees' started by Mr Grinch, Aug 13, 2013.

  1. Mr Grinch

    Mr Grinch Total Gardener

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    I have a problem (i think) with two of my Sorbus. Ones "Villmorini" the other "Autumn Spire".

    The bark on both does not look as dark as last year, the leaf growth is very much poorer especially on the Autumn Spire. On the Villmorini ive had a little die back on some of the branches, not a lot only the tips of some branches. Ive put this down to the dry hot spell we had, so ive watered well over the past 2 weeks. Berry production is poor especially in the "Autumn Spire". Last year in the wet, they did very well, this year, hotter and dryer, they seem to have struggled. I put it down to the weather but tonight ive noticed especially on the Villmorini black crack type marks on the truck, one feels soft to touch. On the "Autumn Spire" there is one mark.

    Any clues ? Have i wasted two years growing and they are doomed ?

    Interestingly i have a sorbus on the other side of the garden (i cant remember name but ornamental type again) which was planted last autumn and its doing brilliantly in growth but no flower of berries at all.

    Any clues ?
     
  2. noisette47

    noisette47 Total Gardener

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  3. Sheal

    Sheal Total Gardener

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    Hi Mr. Grinch.....I planted a Vilmorinii last year and yes, mine has been suffering too. I have well drained sandy soil and during the rainy months of spring it was doing well. However, once we hit this summers dry spell most of it's leaves dried up and dropped. My five year old Malus has always suffered similarly although it didn't drop it's leaves. I've put it down to the roots still being shallow and not being able to reach any moisture. I watered them both twice a week for a month and they have recovered, the Vilmorinii has grown new leaves although I won't see any berries this year.

    I had also thought with the extra watering that any nutrients in the soil were being washed away, so I was feeding them every three weeks too.
     
  4. Mr Grinch

    Mr Grinch Total Gardener

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    Thanks for the replies.
    I'm not worried about the leaf or lack of berries or poor growth more the few black marks that has appeared mainly on the villmorini trunk and one on the autumn flame. I've googled canker and it looks like the beginnings of that. Do they suffer with this? I thought a fruit problem.

    Do I cut out these marks, I think I can but one seems bigger that the rest a feels softer as if its rotting.

    G
     
  5. Sheal

    Sheal Total Gardener

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    Is it possible to have a picture of the problem Mr. Grinch? I wouldn't cut them out it may do more damage to the tree.
     
  6. Mr Grinch

    Mr Grinch Total Gardener

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  7. Sheal

    Sheal Total Gardener

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    It does look like it could be canker Mr. Grinch. I was looking at images on the internet and came across this that you may be interested in. :)

     
  8. Mr Grinch

    Mr Grinch Total Gardener

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    Very informative sheel nice one.

    Looks like ive got not choice but to have a scrape. Do you think the very wet of last yeat and long winter may have stressed the tree out for it to get this ?

    G
     
  9. Sheal

    Sheal Total Gardener

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    It's certainly worth trying to save the tree Mr. Grinch. It's either that or lose it anyway, sorry that sounds harsh, but we know as gardeners you win some and you lose some.

    It's difficult to know whether the weather has caused this. This island of mine has high rainfall, but the trees don't seem to suffer from many related diseases. It could be the weather in general, it's so topsy turvy now from one year to another the poor plants don't know what they are doing from one year to the next. It could also be that your tree has had a problem that's only just shown itself from the start.

    Let me know how you get on. :)
     
  10. Mr Grinch

    Mr Grinch Total Gardener

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    Well ive done it tonight. Not as major as that apple tree but the Vilmorini has a few small patches. Im not sure it is canker now. Once the top layer is cut away, the heart wood is ok but just seems to be stained by the mould. Its solid. The mould seem to be spreading under the bark. Ive removed what i can, cleaned them up and sprayed with an anti fungal. Lets see what happens now.

    G
     
  11. Sheal

    Sheal Total Gardener

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    I think you've done all you can, fingers crossed that it's sorted the problem. :)
     
  12. Mr Grinch

    Mr Grinch Total Gardener

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    Problems year 2 -

    Ok here is the progress. The black canker type things have not reoccured. Good news but the leave drop and berry drop is still happening.

    The tree worst affected last year, seems a lot healthier this year, although there are signs. The healthy tree last year which i moved in the winter to a spot closer to the others seems to be badly effected this year. Leaf growth a lot poorer, berry drop and leaf drop.

    I've checked the RHS site for conditions they like and it states, sandy, loam, free draining soil which are NOT my conditions, yet the Nursery i bought them from including the tag states they are wet and clay tolerant. The usual mixed messages on labels.

    Looking at the leaf's, some have like a blotching, like a rust type thing and both tree's were find in spring where we had good blossom and bud growth. Im thinking lack of water in summer and maybe the extra year establishment for the first tree is the reason why its doing better.

    Any thoughts ?
     
  13. Jungle Jane

    Jungle Jane Middle Class Twit Of The Year 2005

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    It probably is because your soil is so boggy. I've never known of mountain ashes to grow in boggy conditions, although I could be wrong. Perhaps its time to look for a new tree that will like your boggy soil?

    The father in lawn has similar boggy conditions on clay and some plants do seem to suddenly behave this way and no one knows why.
     
  14. Mr Grinch

    Mr Grinch Total Gardener

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    Im not sure Jane. Its wet in winter there is no doubt but i think more the other way in summer. To prove the point, i left some Dahlia in last winter to see what would happen and they came up again this year even after the wettest winter on record so if underwater then they would have rotted off.

    I have dug loads of stuff into this earth but when dry it still gets hard so im wondering if drought is the issue rather than bog ?
     
  15. noisette47

    noisette47 Total Gardener

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    Going by my experiences here, it's not so much clay soil per se that is the problem, but the fact that it gets compacted. I tried to dig up a few shrubs and trees that seemed to be suffering or were in the wrong place and simply had to give up because the roots had gone so deeply. The said trees and shrubs grew like wildfire after their attempted disinterrement! It seems that disturbing the compacted soil around the roots actually did them good. Plants need air as well as food and water, so maybe forking around struggling plants helps (unless they're suckering types!).
     
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