Windfarm and renewable energy joke !

I am against wind generators,
Recently I travelled across Romania to the Blue Danube Delta nature reserve

Along the way there were wind farms, and I mean wind farms, these were twenty generators deep for over 100 miles, just like a whirling white ribbon, only about twenty percent were whirling
They still have the same amount of coal fired stations, as they did before, so not really much saving
The exciting views I was expecting were not there, Well you could sort of see what the landscape was like through the white haze

Nuclear I am happy with, small out of the way, and SAFE

I slept alongside (8 feet) a Nuclear Reactor for two years, I have no problems, I am not green and my children I fathered are fine

The UK have shut down ten coal fired generators, Whilst China have opened 460 in the past year, so our minimum carbon footprint is pointless like a flea on an Elephants back really
We need to unshackle from paying Russia for Gas and France for Nuclear electrickery

Jack McHammocklashing

 

I absolutely 100% agree Jack. I was pleased to see that very recently the powers that be are amending the planning laws in England and Wales at least to give home owners threatened by these monsters some hope of a fair fight to stop them blighting their lives. Unfortunately Wee Eck is not for turning and hell bent on smothering Scotland with them. I am convinced, and have plenty of facts and figures to support my views that wind factories will be the biggest white elephant of my geneation. Perhaps you saw a post of mine not so long ago detailing just how much it costs US when wind factories are asked to stop generating due to over production...obscene. Britain's attempts at saving the planet (if you believe the so called experts) are a you know what in the ocean in compared to what is happening in emerging countries

 

I like our new wind farm just off the coast here, but only because I think that particular one is quite arty in a funny sort of way, and it makes me feel like I live closer to the beach now because you can see the windmills from our street, and I know they're in the sea, therefore I can see I'm near the sea

On land though i don't like them. They're taking over the landscape.

As for environmental benefits, well, I don't know about that. I wonder how much energy is used in manufacturing them, shipping them, assembling them, laying underground cables for them, building new substations etc, and I wonder if they will replace that energy before they are decommissioned, disassembled, shipped, cut up, and melted down.

In any case, I watched a program a while ago where some boffins did the actual sums. Wind wasn't going to put a dent in our energy consumption. They were saying that nuclear fusion is our best hope of meeting our future energy demands. If we could capture a significant amount of solar energy that that would be best, but they said with out best technology, there is no sign that solar generators will be anywhere near efficient enough to be actually useful long term.

 

Apart from uneconomical, the bot on the landscape is tremendous
Some people say "Oh it is not so bad" well, no initially it is unusual and modern
Though when you see what is install for us in the future, as witnessed in Romania
mile upon mile upon mile of them in a ribbon twenty generators wide

Jack McH

 

Some would say that as most cars typically only carry the driver, whereas most planes will be carrying about 400 people, you need to multiply your fuel count by 400. Then a plane is covering a lot more miles, so you need to take that into account, but I still think you have a valid point.

 

We're missing the point here, we've got so many opportunities to make small scale hydro electric plants rather than tree off great big wind turbines.

 

Exactly. Just like this bloke:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8387449.stm

 

I have to admit that I find the sight of a one or a half dozen wind turbines on a horizon quite a spectacular sight. A whole landscape filled with them would be another matter as would one or two in my back yard. Wouldn’t mind a small one on the roof though!
The economics are debatable. Quite apart from the efficiency, the wind doesn’t blow enough or blows too fast for much of the time and there’s the carbon costs involved in production and installation.

The air travel versus car travel carbon emissions is interesting. It’s difficult to find up to date data but the best comparison I can find is that in 2006, based on sales of UK aviation fuel, flights from the UK produced 40 million tonnes of CO2 and in 2007 (no 2006 data available) automotive transport produced 73 million tonnes of CO; hardy a small or insignificant contribution. Thankfully the automotive emissions have fallen steadily since then.

There’s an interesting report by the UN in 2006 that finds that 18% of global warming gasses are produced during livestock production, feeding, transportation and by the methane from their ‘exhausts’.

 

I like Global warming, so much more comfortable than the other alternative

 

I just wish we could equip the world with governments staffed by people with common sense.

There are financial incentives for "green energy" companies. I can accept that. What I don't like though is when companies like EDF get government subsidies for building the wind farm just off shore here, and they still get those incentives when the project runs nearly a year over its dead line, and then they'll get money when they sell us the electricity, then they'll get subsidies when the turbines are stood doing nothing because its too windy.

Its this last point that drives me mad. These turbines are standing in salt water in a windy area. So its too windy and/or demand for energy is low. You can't simply disconnect the turbines, because if there's no resistance, the wind will tear them apart. So they need brakes (yes, wind turbines have brakes. Conventional friction brakes I believe).

If only all that energy could be captured and saved up somehow. Oh I don't know, maybe by using hydrolysis to generate some sort of fuel gas. What do we need for that, oh yes, some surplus electricity, some water, and an electrolyte, say for example, salt. So we have a load of wind turbines stood in a massive expanse of water, with that water full of electrolytes.

You don't get something for nothing. Without accounting for loss through heat and noise, it takes 1 horsepower of mechanical energy to generate 712 watts of electrical energy. That means if you're drawing 712 watts from a wind turbine, then the wind needs to be apply 1 horse power of mechanical energy to the turbine. If you're drawing 712kW, then the turbine needs to have 1000 horsepower of mechanical energy from the wind, and so on.

So with some clever electrics, all controlled by one of those magic boxes of cheap electronics, a computer or something, you could sort of say oh, its too windy/there's not enough current demand, and switch out the turbine to the hydrolysis electrodes, which start seperating the sea water into hydrogen and oxygen in a big undersea tank. Then lo and behold, demand increases/wind drops, and that same computer switches circuits back to mains supply, fires up a gas turbine, and starts burning that stored hydrogen and oxygen mix to generate power. Pure witchery and magic.

Why doesn't this sort of thing happen? Well why would it? Someone has to manage the budget for these million million quid projects. Shareholders want profits and dividends. If it is more profitable to waste any surplus than it is to capture and store it and use it when there's a deficit, what are the bean counters going to do? If the governments told them they'll subsidise the build then after that its up to them to make it profitable, then you can bet they'd squeeze everything out of the science that they possibly could.

 

Another power source in the future would be plastic tide turbines.
Out of sight under the water. Consistent production because the tide turns twice a day.
The problem at the moment is degradation of equipment due to corrosive effect of salt.

 

They have been developing tide/wave devices as long as I can remember , for some reason they can never develop a reliable system , except for estuary barrages . This really must be the source of renewable energy though. I would like to see the correct calculations for wind power , I am sure they are not cost effective. We went up to Silverdale , Morecambe Bay , for the weekend . They had one great ugly turbine stuck at the head of the beautiful Lune valley. What use is one , except for destroying the view