Insulation - retro install

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Fat Controller, Jul 26, 2022.

  1. Fat Controller

    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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    I thought I would update this thread as we've just spent some weeks working on the house. When we looked behind the kitchen cabinets using an endoscope, no real holes could be seen (much to my surprise), so I changed tack entirely.

    Once the kitchen was decorated, I went around the bottom of the cabinet kickboards and put a nice bead of silicone all the way around to stop the cold air blowing under them. By far the most successful things we have done, however are:

    - Silicone up holes around the Sky/broadband wires
    - Replace all of the rubber seals on the double-glazing, including doors
    - Install a magnetic curtain in the open door frame between the kitchen and the living room

    The latter two have made a massive difference, to the point that since doing so, our heating has barely murmured, despite there being a few chilly nights and the external kitchen door being open at times. Walking into the kitchen can be a bit of a shock to the system when it is cold in there, but that just goes to prove how well it is working.

    WhatsApp Image 2022-10-02 at 19.06.59.jpeg

    Replacing the double glazing rubbers has cost us about £100, but again I think it is well worthwhile and we will get that back in a matter of weeks.
     
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    • ricky101

      ricky101 Total Gardener

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      Good job there !!

      Did you replace double glazing rubbers yourself ? something we could do with replacing.
      Assume you mean the rubbers on the frames and openers, not the glass to frame rubber / foam seals ?
       
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      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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        Yes, the rubbers on the frames and openers and did it myself. Not overly difficult to be fair - the hardest bit was getting all of the old rubbers out (some were brittle and breaking up like egg shells) and then getting into some of the tighter corners where there are hinges on the openers. The difference is really quite remarkable - especially our patio doors where there was quite literally a breeze blowing through all the time. The rubbers come in buckets of 25m from Amazon at about £19 per bucket, and I used four for a two bed semi.
         
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        • ricky101

          ricky101 Total Gardener

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          How did you know what profile to get, seems there are lots of different shaped rubbers out there in terms of the balloon part thats compressed and the key part that slots into the channel ?
           
        • Fat Controller

          Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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          If you take a look at the existing rubbers, it will give you a clue which one you need - ours had rubbers that were more like a flap than a balloon, but we replaced them all with these:

          https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07W998GD1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

          They are more or less universal - the key that inserts into the channel is the same (think inverted T), so there is a bit of squeezing to get it in, but not difficult to do. Going from the old rubbers to the new where we now have those bubble style on both sides of any closure, aside from insulation the main difference is in noise - we hear a hell of a lot less than we were with the old seals.
           
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          • Fat Controller

            Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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            Just to give a bit of an indication, our thermostat is set to 22ºc (71.6ºf) permanently, and it lives on my desk at the moment. Last night, the outdoor temperatures dropped to around 4ºc (39.2ºf) and our heating has only operated for 34 minutes in total for the entire night:

            WhatsApp Image 2022-10-09 at 11.35.36.jpeg
             
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            • pete

              pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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              What room is the thermostat in FC?
               
            • Fat Controller

              Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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              It is in the living room, only a few feet from where I am sitting now. The kitchen is the cold room (and is on the other side of that new magnetic curtain), so I am suspecting that along with all of the other draughts we have removed has helped a lot.
               
            • pete

              pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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              I see where you are coming from, but it's a sad old time when we get down to heating one room to an ideal temperature.
              Takes me back to my childhood when we huddled around the fire and sat in one room because the rest of the house was cold.
              Not thinking your place is that bad by any means, but I can't help thinking we have gone back 50yrs or so.
               
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              • Clueless 1 v2

                Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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                Do you have window blinds behind your curtains @Fat Controller ?

                I do. Mine are ancient and about had it. I've had an idea though. It's still just a seed of an idea and needs further research and experimentation but seeing as you seem to be on a similar mission to me I thought I'd share the idea here, see if we can flesh it out between us.

                Windows are one of the biggest heat sinks in a typical room (after the door of course). Curtains certainly make a big difference. But here's what I'm thinking. There are three main mechanisms by which heat escapes through the window.

                Conduction. The glass conducts heat from the warm side to the cold side.

                Convection. Warm air circulates against the window, then conduction happens.

                Curtains help with both of the above by blocking warm air from coming into contact with the window. That leaves...

                Radiation. Warmth is just infrared light. Being light, it can shine straight through transparent things. This is where curtains let us down a bit. Sure the curtains will warm up, but then being warm they'll re radiate that accumulated heat back out, some into the room, some out the window.

                So this is where the blinds come into it. I'm thinking if the blinds were reflective, they'd reflect the infrared light, ie warmth, back into the room.

                I'm going to try it, but the challenge I have yet to overcome is to figure out how to do it cheap, while not looking ugly. Sticking aluminium foil on the blinds might work from a purely technical perspective, but I can't imagine it looking good.
                 
              • pete

                pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                You can buy thin bubble polythene with silver foil on one side.

                How about getting an old roller blind and stripping the blind off and then rolling some of that on it.
                 
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                • ricky101

                  ricky101 Total Gardener

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                  @Fat Controller - good call on those rubbers seals, just replaced our main window with one of those buckets, also stocked by Toolstation and Screwfix so able to pick one up locally.

                  Some of the old rubbers just crumbled away, so well in need of replacing, will help stop the room filling with smoke from all the s... folk roundabout use on their wood burners and chimeras.
                  So much for smokeless zones !

                  Out of interest, did you bend the seal around the corners or make diagonoal cuts ?
                   
                • Fat Controller

                  Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                  I bent it round as the originals were also bent round - my understanding is that it should be a continuous piece with the outer (window/opener) having the cut in the rubber somewhere near the middle at the bottom and then the inner (frame) having the cut in the rubber somewhere near the middle at the top.

                  It is remarkable the difference that it makes. From midnight last night through to now, our heating has ran for a grand total of 1hr 3mins, with a 2-3ºc minimum overnight. A good 15-20 mins of that was at 0800(ish) this morning, by which time we would be at work, so I suspect that is one of the dogs lying in the middle of the kitchen magnetic curtain thus keeping it open and cooling the room - - our daughter would have been up a bit later and that would have the dogs moving about away from the curtain.
                   
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                  • CanadianLori

                    CanadianLori Total Gardener

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                    Drapery/window treatments have a fairly good insulation rating. Roman shades provide an average of R4 factor however NO window dressing replaces properly sealed windows. They help immensely in cold months to stop the chilliness and I can assure you, they greatly help lower air conditioning cycles in the summer.

                    There are roller blinds that can be reversed by season. One side out to pull in heat in the winter and vice versa. But unless they are all hermetically sealed around the edges, they only help somewhat. And they are a pain to reverse on the roll.

                    I know this from being a professional in the industry for over 20 years with certification to back it up.

                    @Fat Controller what you have done is excellent and there seems to be no doubt that you've probably reached the pinnacle of taming your interior climate costs.:dbgrtmb:
                     
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                    • Black Dog

                      Black Dog Gardener of useful things

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                      I know I am rather late to the party but since we turned out house upside down after buying it 2 years ago (including fully renewing the insulation), I'd like to share a few insights. Hope they are helpful....

                      1. Check if you have double walls which can be filled with blow-in insulation.
                      Lots of older houses are build with two brick walls and an (supposedly) insulating air gap in between. Turned out this was some wrong thinking back then. We filled our whole walls (9cm air gap) with a truckload of insulating EPS (expanded polystyrene) within a single Saturday. And the cost was around 1000£. Can't get more insulation for the money

                      2. Check the Roller Shutters (if you have any)
                      Lots of them where built in with simple wooden boards to cover them up. Glue a few boards of EPS atop of them to get instant warmth.
                      Also the openings for the cords to open and close them often are a lot bigger than they have to be.

                      3. See if there is a draft
                      Ask a friend with a party smoke machine to make some smoke. Open all the doors inside your home and watch where it goes. This will be especially helpful on a windy and cold day so you can see temperature differences.

                      4. Check if your roof is insulated.
                      Lots of older buildings have insufficient insulation atop the top rooms or beneath the floor boards of the attic. Additionally it will compact over the decades and lose its insulating properties. Same as with the walls, you can blow insulation beneath the floor boards of the attic to gain a lot. And it's really cheap compared to what you gain.

                      5. Wrap the piping of your heaters in cold surroundings.
                      We had a load of pipework in the cellar, and you could feel the warmth just dissipate everwhere. Get some insulation and wrap it around them. The more the better.

                      6. Check the rubber/silicone around your windows, doors and other openings in the wall.
                      It tends to get hard and brittle over time, loosing it's purpose. Replacement is a lot cheaper and easier than you think (3-5£ for a tube of silicone)

                      7. Ask if anyone has a thermal camera.
                      If you ask nicely you can borrow one from a lot of workplaces. It will show you exactly which walls, windows or other places leak the most heat. Use it on a really cold day and run the heating at the same time to get the best results. See anything cold on the inside, or warm from the outside - you know where to investigate further.

                      8. Our old fireplace was completely uninsulated against the outer wall. Unless you use it a lot and have access to lots of firewood, you might consider swapping it for an oven

                      9. Kitchen appliances
                      We couldn't believe how much energy was wasted with our old freezer, fridge, electric oven and stove
                      I know it expensive, but after swapping them out over the course of 2 years we saved about half the energy from those sources. As an added bonus everything cooks a lot faster with induction.
                       
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