The Collapse of the Euro and Portugal

We are not worried although we are on UK pensions (plus me on a USA one). I pay my taxes in the countries from which I receive the money.

We just bought property number 4 here this summer and have renovated it with new kitchen/bathroom for long-term let / onward sale. Have also renovated the 2-bedroom holiday let on a complex in the last month with a new kitchen which we have owned since 1999. Also renovated with new bathroom/plumbing on our one-bedroom long-let we have owned for 23 years and have it ready for the new long-let to go in January ... another escapee from the UK. Something must be right here ....

Here is a news item just sent me by a long-time friend here (the guy in glasses drinking the beer) who is a landscape gardener / owns a garden center and has lived here for 25 years and his children were born and educated here ... is he worried ... ?

http://sicnoticias.sapo.pt/pais/article1066037.ece (sorry, you have to go past the 'commercials') ...

Just thought I would put forward the views of us living here.

 

I very much doubt that the UK will rush to Portugal to remove British living there if the banks /euro collapses

they never bothered rescuing the British who were in Zimbabwe

 

Too true *dim* but I think the point is the expats don't want to be 'rescued' from here although I understand they are escaping from Spain at a high rate of knots but it has problems over and above the possible demise of the Euro. The majority of Brits here can't afford to live in the UK now and would be on the bread line.

It will be interesting to see what happens in due course.

 

Thanks Victoria. It does put an interesting view of whats happening across Europe from the "grass roots" Which to me is far more important then the vocals we hear from the "suits".

 

Am I missing something?:D

I'm getting it in Portuguese

 

Let it run for a it Pete

 

Oh yeah got it now Capney.

I never read the Times, far to down market for me.

 

... glad you finally caught up with us, Pete ... :WINK1:

Maybe in your spare time you could learn Portuguese .. I think it's the 5th most spoken language in the world ... ... lots of non-Euro problem countries one could go to ...

 

I think the problem is a lot more serious than many people think. But the good news Vicky is that people on pensions will probably fare better than most. And whilst the Euro will be weak the Dollar will be strong (flight to safety).

I am not reassured by people who are not worried. Thats how we got into the problem in the first place. Its like the man who fell off the Empire State Building and as he passed the 43rd floor he was hear muttering to himself - all right so far.

There are two problems - the Euro, which is mainly political, and world debt. The Euro problem could be solved by an orderly break up of the Eurozone. And there is no doubt that that will happen to a certain degree - but it may not be that orderly. But whatever the Eurozone does it cannot reduce the debt level - all it can do is pass it on; from countries to banks, and then on to the government and hence on to the population.

The real problem is the level of debt - not only in the Eurozone but also in the UK and the USA. To eliminate the debt, we either have to have hyperinflation, which will lead to massive unemployment, or countries and companies have to default, which will also lead to unemployment. Or for the government to bail out the banks and companies which will lead to austerity and unemployment.

 

I don't think it'll make much difference where one is, I think it's 'hold your breath' time.

 

Narr, no use round here.
Urdu or a bit of Polish might be handy though.

 

Sadly or gladly, both my pensions come from the UK and the USA ... but I live very cheaply here in the Eurozone .. caught between a rock and a hard place and a void ...

 

Vicky - I think you are well off. As a retired person - you can't lose your job. And even if Portugal falls out of the Euro, its currency will devalue and make your pension worth more.

I feel so sorry for the young people. They are going to have to take the pain of clearing up the mess.

 

Peter, I am only 'well off' because I sold a house in the UK in 2002 for £173,000 and 'on the back' of that property which we had since 1984 we bought four properties here over the years which, in the current poor economic climate we could only get £600,000 for if we sold all four. But, we get rental income from two, hopefully three now. We could never do this in the UK.

I do agree with you to some extent with the young folk suffering ... but at the same time I do not. In the 23 years we lived in the UK we did without .. ie, for the first five years (1978-1983) did not even own a TV .. we did not go out to pubs or clubs for our entire time in the UK but had a select group of friends (whom we still have to this day and come to Portugal yearly) who came to us and we to them and we did silly things like ... cook meals for each other and have drinks and play games .... how boring ...

We did not have all the modern-day gizmos which cost a fortune like mobile phones and heaven only knows what else .. but both of us worked in good jobs and earned more than good money (we both had company cars) and we SAVED our money.. and we paid cash for everything .. as we do today. We do today have all these 'modern technology' gizmos which I do not understand but which we have paid for ..

I have to say there is a different mindset out there that I cannot understand ... ie, if you do not have the money, you do not spend it!

Rant over.

 

Vicky - you are absolutely right. When we were bought up we were told you can't have it if you can't afford it. Unfortunately that view has been thrown out of the window for most people and is a major reason why we are here.

This is why I don't think there is a quick or an easy solution. I am a great believer that life goes in cycles. We see this in the natural world - annual and daily cycles etc. But its just as visible in the economic world, and probably even in the world of fashion, taste, morality and many other aspects. In every case there is an overshoot in one direction, this causes things to happen that creates a reaction and it all goes into reverse and there is an undershoot.

We have had the overshoot and are now in the process of reversing direction. But the reversal has got to be one of mental attitudes as well as financial aspects. This is why it won't be quck. I can see many changes coming. During the good years we were all very tolerant and liberal. I suspect that too will reverse. Political correctness may well be turned back, being regarded as an aspect of a decadent society. Along with our tolerance of the lazy, scroungers and criminals etc. I suspect that we will also see a big reverse in the fortunes of bankers although there are no signs of it yet.

There will be a number of aspects of the future that I applaud - but it will be a unhappy time for many people.