alcohol price to go up

It was announced just recently that the government had missed their own targets for reducing borrowing. They blamed the fact that the economy has failed to pick up as much as they expected. I wonder why that is. Nothing to do with the fact that people are scared to part with their money because they don't know how long they'll still have a job for, and employers daren't expand because nobody trusts that the economy is sustainable as it is because nothing is being invested in infrastructure, and any money that anyone does earn is being snaffled immediately by the government.

 

I've drunk another 2 glasses of 35p/bottle homemade wine whilst reading the further posts on this thread and still don't see how I'll be affected in any way by these proposals.

 

Nooo. Surely they'll use the extra revenue to create new jobs and getting the economy moving again of course. Just like when the government bought into the banks on so that they could start lending money to small businesses to kick start the economy, and when they told the Bank of England to print all that dosh, again to to get the economy moving. We're all in this together, and its paying off.

Oh, hang on a minute, no wait, sorry. That's not quite right is it.

 

As italian , I used to drink a small glass of wine with my meal , I can`t do that anymore , unless I buy the contraband wine at £2.50 a bottle , I always remind myself that alchool is a luxury and if I can`t afford I will not get it ..as simple as that , I prefer a glass of good wine once a month that bad wine every day.

I live in a multicultural area and many shop are selling contraband alcohol and cigarettes , for less then half price of retails .........the raise of the price will not stop the drinker , they know where to get it.

 

That was what I was assuming.
And as such, should actually be undemocratic price fixing by a western government and flying in the face of competitive pricing.

 

Granted and I do accept what you are saying because I've read the statistics. But, I must point out, I never said it was "exclusive" However, there is an underlying point you are missing here.

The "cost" of "binge-drinking" (which, by the way, is quite subjective! For example, I was under the impression a standard 70cl bottle of wine = 6 units, yet, today on radio was quoted as = 10 units!!??? Which begs the question: what size bottle and what, precisely, is a unit!? ) goes beyond the mere "health" issues (aka NHS costs during binge episode and beyond).

It incurs a cost on Policing budgets, NHS budgets, crime statistics, domestic violence statistics, suicide counts, mental health issues, anti-social behaviour statistics, neighbourhood/city centre "offence/s". Now, a blind man on a galloping donkey could see that there is a major overlap in these individual costs/statistics! However, if you consider the "yoof cul'ure" of binge drinking and associated "costs" vs baby boomers + culture of drinking vs associated "costs" there is a wealth of difference.

Equally, the overall, long term costs of youthful binge drinking vs the baby boomers later arrival/habit of binge drinking is markedly different. A young liver vs a "late to the plate" liver gives a different prognosis

The whole topic demands thorough research and some strong arguments *before* implementation!! It should not be a "follow Scotland" policy; nor should it be a "quick fix" policy at an attempt to endear voters (we're a bit more clued up than that, ta muchly!)

Bottom line, Clue is: binge drinking does bring issues; the fault in your argument is assuming those issues are as far reaching/costly irrespective of age. It's a misnomer. The actual, short and long term "costs" fall predominantly on the "yoof". For the baby boomers, this is an opportunity to *have* a priveledged "yoof" they were denied via rationing and a strong social culture

 

I don't think I've missed the point Mum. I know that 'binge drinking' costs society, regardless of who does it.

I wasn't suggesting that you said it was an issue almost exclusive to youths, but it does seem to be a common misconception, and I was just trying to dispel that myth.

The point that everybody keeps missing when talking about the problems associated with binge drinking is that binge drinking is a symptom, not a cause in itself. When I was younger and used to go out clubbing, it could be said that I used to binge drink, yet I NEVER beat anybody up, I never hit or otherwise abused my wife and the only crimes I committed were, possible on occasion, 'drunk and disorderly' in that sometimes I'd be sufficiently inebriated to be unable to walk in a straight line. If someone is going to beat their wife, they have a problem that is not caused by drink. A tee-totaller can commit crime too. I have no doubt that drink helps to take away people's inhibitions which might make them more likely to do things they were inclined to do anyway, but drink doesn't make anybody do anything. As usual, the government has completely overlooked this most obvious of points, and will steam ahead with a futile attempt to sticking a sticking plaster of the great gaping wound of a society that has a whole section of alienated disillusioned individuals who genuinely believe (and in many cases rightly so) that they can't really expect anything better.

 

I've not come across many binge drinkers in their 50s or 60s in the town centre on Friday or Saturday nights.

I agree older people do drink, but I dont think that many go out on an evening with the thought in mind that they are going to get totally wiped out.
With a lot of the youngsters, that is the only intention, most get tanked up before going clubbing.

 

Is this rise in alcohol consumption related in any way to the growing desperation and despair voiced by more and more people? Is it me, or am I imagining a growing similarity with post war eastern Europe?
Jenny

 

I hadn't missed your point, clue

I do think we are singing from the same song sheet; I just think we are singing in a different key

The Gov want to be seen to be doing "the right thing"; now, bear in mind they are also juggling the politics of the GB/Scots independence vote soap opera that is currently vogue. Scotland introduced the price per unit alchol scheme Interestingly, the Scots also introduced the "smoking in public places" ban prior to GB. Yet, it is team GB that is copping the fall out of the small business collapse (e.g. public houses/clubs) in part as a result of this "do-gooder" ethos (aka short termism thinking!).

If you have never beaten anyone up in your inebriated condition, I would argue that it is a result of your upbringing (the shame vs phuckem attitude Which is a testiment to your parents!)
I would also argue that not being able to walk in a straight line does not (by definition) make you a "drunk and disorderly" - drunk? Perhaps! Disorderly? Nah

We will agree to disagree on the "wife beating" front: first and foremost because you can never be a "wife" (although men can be subject to the same fate!); secondly, by your own admission, that is not something you are familiar with; and thirdly because I have both first hand and second hand experience of that topic and I have no intentions of going down that path: suffice to say; you are a gent While drink may not "make" people do something, equally, it does not act as a restraint Thus, it is a null and void argument. It may not *make* someone do something, but it can make someone "feel" *empowered* to do something they otherwise may not I can provide much research (if you are interested?) in the relationship between alcohol and domestic abuse. Yet, by focusing on the "domestic" angle - and a valid one at that - it is only a part of the story and should not obscure the whole picture.

Binge drinking has a price to pay: ultimately to us, the tax payers; yet those binge drinkers would argue ( as smokers have done in times past): we *pay* for that priviledge in taxes! And, to be fair, they do! (Omitting the moral argument )

The question I would like to put forward (specifically to those "holier than thou", would be ... once you eradicate the, immence!, revenue generated in higher than average taxes imposed on those *sinners* of smoking and drinking ... where do you look to fund the difference?

Someone has already suggested a food tax to address obesity? Yet, as a market driven economy, carp food is plentiful and fruit and veg is extortionate!!! Now *that* is of far more noteworthy attention than the (now, minority?) of drinkers!

So, where does that leave us?

Fill yer gut with junk and you earn yourself brownie points?

Yuk!

 

Is there a rise in alcohol consumption, or is it more a rise in awareness of it? That's not one of the rhetorical questions things, I genuinely don't know.

You see, it seems to me that my dad has as many stories about going out clubbing as I do, except for him it wasn't clubbing because the clubs were mostly called discotecs or something. From what I gather, same thing, different name. Go another generation back and of course my grand parents never did anything like that did they? Funny how in his later years my grandad could still put a pint or five away and still be totally coherent and stable so I guess he must have found time to 'practice' at some stage.

As for trouble arising from boozing, I have no idea if that's a new thing or not, except to say that as a child there was one very firm rule that my dad imposed. If we were going anywhere as a family and would be coming home later than us kids would normally be allowed out, no matter what, we would always be home before the pubs closed, because my dad didn't want us kids about even under his supervision when people started to spill out. My dad also used to reminisce about the 'war' between 'mods' and 'rockers' back in the 1960s. Seems to me that with people routinely being knocked off motorbikes on purpose by someone riding pillion on another bike whacking someone round the head with a chain, or a riot in Brighton that led to some poor soul being killed, it seems to me that it was rougher then than it is now.

So I wonder, are society's problems really that new?

 

I was "around" in the 60's CL1 and it was NOT as bad as it is now. Of that I am sure,
Jenny