Again

When are the yanks going to learn that their outdated gun laws are just stupid?

How can a nation so backward try to set itself up as the world leader?

This time its a kid, just 4 years old, who has shot and killed her cousin in an 'accident'.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-25787934

Still, it says it in a 200+ year old document written by British colonial rebels that every citizen has a right to bear arms, so it must be right.

 

To be fair, there are far fewer shooting accidents than there are most other types of accident. The gun should have been locked away. This is not the fault of the gun but the fault of the stupid human that left it, not only loaded but where a child could get it. I grew up around guns and knew at an early age how dangerous they were in exactly the same way I knew how dangerous knives and, sticking things in plug sockets, playing with matches and drowning could be. I was kept equally safe from all of them. Guns don't kill, humans do.

There you go, a bit of controversy to start the day off.

 

There'd be fewer still if it wasn't for a bunch of idiots who think its a good idea to have a law that effectively says that everyone can have a loaded gun, and if those idiots were to think... well ever.

Valid point, but one hazard is in no way justified by the presence of others. Its like the old hardcore smoker's line 'you've got to die sometime, I might get run over by a bus tomorrow', to which the appropriate reply 'yes that's right you might, but equally you might not, and if you don't, you might live long enough to develop all sorts of nasty smoking diseases'. Same with guns. Had that 4 year old girl not had access to a loaded gun, she still might have accidentally caused the death of her cousin in another type of accident, or she might not, but one thing is certain, if she'd not had access to a loaded gun, she would not have shot her cousin dead.

 

Exactly my point. If the gun had been locked away, unloaded, it would never have happened. Not the law's fault, or the gun's. Human stupidity at an individual level.

 

I'm for minimising any risks. I can see both points, but I think having a given right to defend oneself in such a way is outdated. Sure, they argue they need to keep a gun to defend themselves, but if no one had guns, there wouldn't be a need to have one for defence.

 

Do hunting rifles count? You'd be surprised how many of those there are in this country.

 

I believe our laws are somewhat more strict. First, you need a firearms license, and I'm told that to get one, you have to be able to explain why you want it and you have to be subject to a background check (or so I am told).

Then there's the laws about storing them. It is my understanding that the gun should be in one lockable container, unloaded, while the ammo should be in a seperate locked container, ideally in a different location (where practical). Guns should never be loaded when in transit or otherwise not in use. And if you get caught breaking any of these rules, it is my understanding that you get well and truly done by the law (and rightly so).

Compare that to the US, where it seems you can walk into a big gun shop and have as much fun as a kid in a branch of Toys R Us.

If the US has got it so right, then I wonder why they have so much gun related tragedy. There was a statistic reported a few weeks on the radio, it was that in the US, more people are killed by young kids with loaded guns than by terrorist activity, yet the US has its self declared 'war on terror' because they see it as such a threat, while completely missing the point that as has been proven too many times now, their stupid gun laws are allowing innocent kids to be killed on their own turf.

 

US gun laws change all the time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_the_United_States

UK gun law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom

And this.
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/mar/25/gun-ownership-firearms-certificates

I really don't think it is gun law that is killing kids but the gun owner. I wouldn't dream of leaving a loaded rifle anywhere for even a second, even whilst out hunting so why would a parent, for goodness sake, leave a hand gun, loaded, anywhere where their child could play with it? Unbelieveable!

 

Guns here need to be locked away when not in use, and to get a licence they do a full police records check etc. The perception sometimes of Americans and guns is you can just walk into a store and buy one!

 

I agree that its all down to people, and not the machines they use (even if the sole purpose of that machine is to kill things - unlike most other things that can kill people, which usually aren't built for that purpose, a gun has no other purpose except to kill), but the laws are very, very relevant.

There is a reason why laws popping into existence. While a lot of people have common sense, pride, common courtesy etc, and therefore would behave themselves even if there were no laws, there are also a lot of people who, to be quite honest, are careless, discourteous, and, to be brutally honest, incredibly stupid.

In the UK, an incredibly stupid person may turn a blind eye to all sorts of hazards even if kids are present, but because our laws, and indeed our culture, kind of treat guns with the awe and caution that they deserve, its not usual for kids to just happen to find a fully loaded one lying around.

 

The BBC is nothing but a propaganda machine and I care not for their stories and I have not payed my license fee once since the child abuse scandal.
They try to make out like the only people who can be trusted with guns is the police and the army but when you look at the way the police and the army behave it is them who should not be trusted with a weapon.
I remember reading not long ago how they killed an unarmed women in front of her 2 year-old baby or an unarmed man that was shot to death or little Afghan children murdered. The police in America are becoming increasingly militarized and if I were an American I would be scared and want my guns. The absolutely ridiculous OTT response to the Boston bombing demonstrated this.

 

The only connection the BBC has with this thread, is that it was the BBC that I learned of this latest incident from.

You disagreed with me that the US gun laws are stupid, which is fair enough, but to make your point you refer to coppers routinely carrying guns, often with tragic consequences.

If I was a copper in a country where a 200+ year old law written by rebels was still held dear, to the extent that everyone is allowed to arm themselves, I'd want a gun too.

By comparison, in the UK coppers do not routinely carry guns. In fact only a select few are allowed to do so, and they find themselves in court, rightly so, every time they are forced to use them.