Looks like a Sea around the Mump

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Phil A, Jan 26, 2014.

  1. pete

    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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    To be honest, its a very small part of the farmland of Britain, and it it aint 1939, we import most stuff these days, not saying its right.
    Just how it is.
    So no, a "thames barrier" to protect the Somerset levels would be ridiculously expensive in regards to the advantages gained.
     
  2. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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    The trouble is, Jack, that in this day and age we have lost the sense of importance and vital link to the farming land. We have, in our centrally heated brick caves, become sure that Towns and Cities are omnipotent and somehow able to exist completely without the somehow unseen reliance on the farmers producing crops for us. Do we think now that all food comes from abroad and that we can let all the countryside flood without repercussions??:dunno: The argument about whether we should decide whether to protect Cities or Farmland is diversionary and will be used by the Government Bean Counters who's Lives only exist in statistics and the bottom line. We live in a small, overcrowded country, still building on flood plains, deciding not to maintain our rivers, ditches, streams, and natural drainage system and yet we think we are the most intelligent species on Earth. We have to recognise that for every £1 spent on maintaining rivers and protecting the farmland we get at least £8 back over all, with some arguing that we get £10 back per £1 spent. We have to spend money on all of the flood defenses, be it in Cities, towns, on the coast, and in the countryside otherwise we will be spending a lot more recovering from the damage.........or do we have to wait until the water is up to our bottom lip to realise what we should do?:snork:
     
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    • ARMANDII

      ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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      :lunapic 130165696578242 5: Stop picking on Pete!!:heehee:, he happens to be a realist and is building an Ark.:dunno::heehee:
       
    • pete

      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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      I've run out of wood at the moment so I'm hoping the real big flood can be put off till next year.;)
      I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just looking at it from the other side, and as I say, its very small area when looking at the country as a whole.
      My real thoughts are that flood defenses, and more so, coastal defenses are a waste of money, in the end they will be overcome at some point in the future.
      Anyone buying a property within a couple of miles of a known crumbling cliff is asking for trouble.
      Likewise, if you live on a flood plain, you know what to expect, its called a FLOOD plain for a reason, it errr floods often, but perhaps not every year.;)
       
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      • ARMANDII

        ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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        Everyone knows that, Pete:thumbsup::snork: and it's caused a lot of people to think and make comments, which is what GC is about!!

        That's true, Pete. But some people live there for economic reasons, their livelihood is there, they were born there, the cost of living and buying and renting accommodation in other areas is too expensive, or they couldn't sell their house if they tried due to the fact of being in a flood area Also the signs now are that the floods plains that in the past were able to soak up at least partially the excess water are now less capable of dealing with the more extreme weather we are experiencing. But the Government is still pressurising local councils to let builders construct housing estates on flood plains and have relaxed the rules on planning permission loading them in favour of the builders. We're making the situation worse by allowing houses to still be built on flood plains. Life is not so simple that everyone can decide where to live and how they live.....if so there would a flood of people heading off to where they wanted to:dunno::heehee:
         
      • clueless1

        clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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        I have a few thoughts on this point.

        Years ago, while I was a learner driver, we had a spell of (then) unusually heavy rainfall with localised flash flooding. Way before the government changed the planning rules for driveways after realising that concrete is impervious water, my instructor said "its because they keep building on everything, the water has to go somewhere, it isn't going to soak through concrete and tarmac". He was of course right. Yet its funny how the government seems to still think its ok to turn the whole landscape grey with tarmac and concrete.

        And why do we need to build so many new houses? A while ago a FOI request revealed that 800,000 residential properties that are owned by the government, either as the government or as individuals that make up the government were standing empty. Then there's all the former commercial properties and other 'brown field' sites that get ignored.

        Then while I was out on a morning stroll the other day, I walked past the fisherman's huts. Little sheds really, maybe 10'x8'. The owners of those huts don't seem to use them for storing their gear these days. They are mostly mini homes, dens, all done out with carpets and curtains and furniture. You see them all in the summer having a barbecue outside and chilling out. It got me to thinking, when I was a single, unattached lad, I'd have been perfectly content to live in a property like that. There's room for a bed and chair and small table, and outside your door is some of the most scenic land in the area. There's a car park for the owners, and a half decent road connecting the 'village' to the rest of the world. Cheap, easy to look after, very low impact.

        We seem to have it in our collective heads that the minimum standard now is a 2 up 2 down with private parking and a garden. But why? Maybe when you get to the point where you want to settle down yes, but if you're young and just starting out solo on the great adventure of life, why not a little eco hut or static caravan? I personally know quite a few people who'd love such an opportunity, and if I didn't have a wife and 2 kids I'd still be one of them. Such properties can be erected in less than a day with little or no foundations and minimal infrastructure at a cost of maybe a couple of grand, including the long term lease of the land they stand on. You could also just shove them more or less anywhere. And if you take a leaf out of the book of some Scandinavian countries, giving them underfloor heating and living green roofs, maybe a compost bog, they'd have next to no environmental impact while at the same time just blending in visually into the landscape.

        Its not going to happen though. For some reason the government insists that we should all be living in bricks and mortar in a town or city, consuming huge amounts of resources and placing a massive burden on infrastructure. Possibly something to do with keeping track of where everyone is, or maybe something to do with tax revenues or backhanders from construction firms, I don't know.
         
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        • Fern4

          Fern4 Total Gardener

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          I've read this morning that the EA Director of Operations has said that the handling of the situation in the south west has been "a success"!!! Has he been to the area? I can't believe he's said it. How stupid can you get?
           
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          • Lolimac

            Lolimac Guest

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            I've just seen it too Fern:gaah:...well that's set me off for the day:rolleyespink:
             
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            • Phil A

              Phil A Guest

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              There's a huge new build estate on the former flood plain of the river Isle in Ilminster which they engineered so it wouldn't flood again, and, as far as I know it hasn't.

              But the river Isle is a tributary of the river Parrett so all the water that would have been sitting there is now adding to the problem down river.
               
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              • Scrungee

                Scrungee Well known for it

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                There's lies, damn lies, statistics and Government graphs using logarithmic vertical scales (to make flood defence spending look like it's not far behind other spending)

                graph1.jpg

                graph2.jpg
                 
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                • clueless1

                  clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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                  Here's an interesting piece of news.

                  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26106290

                  So the Communities secretary has basically said the Environment Agency was and is wrong, and that they relied to heavily on the Environment agency's advice.

                  So apart from the obvious positive of the U-turn on their stance about the flooding, it has interesting political implications.

                  It suggests to me that:
                  * Everyone, both inside and outside of government, is losing faith in the environment agency. No surprise there but its interesting that a government minister has said it.
                  * There are great divides forming in government.

                  At this point, a PM with any integrity at all would bring forward the general election. People have lost faith in the current government, and now even the government has lost faith in the government. It wont happen though. Will just have to wait til next year to elect our new coalition, probably comprising three parties, of Lib Dem, Labour and one of the lesser parties, because I doubt any of the major parties will score enough for two of them alone to win 51% of the seats.

                  So I say lets form the GC party. There's enough of us and I reckon we could do a better job. I vote that we elect Mr @Zigs to be our party leader.
                   
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                  • pete

                    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                    I think we have a situation here where the government is cutting adrift the Enviroment Agency, in order to distance themselves from the problem.
                    Who actually funds the E.A?

                    I'm thinking its a similar situation to the state of the roads, they are decaying because the government, (who we pay our road tax to), dont pass the money on to the local authorities.
                    Then they can always say the roads are crumbling because the Councils are not doing their. job.
                    In reality the government is not funding the organisations concerned.
                     
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                    • Scrungee

                      Scrungee Well known for it

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                      This was the EA's advice;

                      But The Government, in addition to publishing "misleading" graphs, has also been providing false information about how much is in budgets for flood prevention works:

                      http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jan/17/government-admits-flood-spending-drop

                      graph3.jpg

                      Plus The Government are also including expenditure by Local Authorities and external bodies in the figures for 'their' expenditure, plus unsecured contributions from others that are currently conjecture.

                      And then there's the 'additional £130 million' (upped from £100m) that's just been promised for flood prevention works, but only £30m is for this year, the remaining £100m for 2015, so another jam tomorrow (after the General Election) promise.

                      Then they blame the EA for not spending money they haven't got (they said more was required and got less) despite warnings that flooding will get worse and worse unless a lot more is done.

                      http://www.parliament.uk/business/p...ers/SN05755/flood-defence-spending-in-England

                      I only wish that Chris Smith had the guts to denounce The Government and risk getting sacked. He is obviously acting on the recommendations of his technical staff, so Ministers should assume the same level of accountability for acting upon the recommendations of their departments. If they don't understand the issues involved, they should never have been appointed. That includes Owen Paterson, Chris Smith and EA staff (and perhaps the MP for Bridgwater if he knows so much about the issues but lacks the ability to get anything done when it's his own party in power)
                       
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                      • clueless1

                        clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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                        I saw that report a while ago @Scrungee where the government had been publicly outed as blatant liars about their spending on flood defences. It only serves to further highlight my point, that the current government is in total disarray, with the unusual stance (as far as I'm aware) of each department publicly 'having a go'.
                         
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                        • Fat Controller

                          Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                          As far as I am concerned, the whole problem is the same for just about every other problem that we have in this country - greed.

                          Pretty much all of the public services in this country are now privatised, and as such are run by profit making businesses. Now, instead of the government employing the required people to run a service, they pay a contractor, the contractor has to employ the same amount of people whilst also making sufficient profit to pass back to the shareholders. So, something that would have cost the government £1m to do directly, actually costs them £1.5m or more.

                          We pay handsomely in taxation in this country, and we should be able to build and maintain infrastructure to allow us to at least cope better with extreme events such as those we are seeing now.

                          We all pay for water supply as well as drainage, and we are all paying sufficiently for the water companies to make good profits (£550m for Thames Water alone for the year of 2013), so can you imagine what our infrastructure would be like now if all the money that was profit over the past 20 years had been ploughed back into the repairs, maintenance and improvement of the infrastructure?

                          The same could be said about our roads, gas, electricity, public transport, housing........
                           
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