Whaaattt?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Tidemark, Aug 17, 2024.

  1. katecat58

    katecat58 Super Gardener

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    Obesity is an illness, so how can an injection to help with it be cheating?

    @Thevictorian, I guess that you have never had problems with your weight?
     
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    • Tidemark

      Tidemark Total Gardener

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      I could easily have had problems with my weight when I was young but my mother had a very effective antidote to snacking biscuits and sugary things. Every time my hand went towards the biscuit barrel, she got a carrot out of the larder, held it out to me and said “If you are hungry or need to chew on something, eat this.” It was drummed into me and it still rings in my ears.
       
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      • ViewAhead

        ViewAhead Total Gardener

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        You were right, it does. :)

        Obesity is a societal and environmental issue, combined with our ancestral DNA that favours putting on weight in times of plenty. When these are 24/7 x 365 days a yr, problems ensue.
         
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        • Obelix-Vendée

          Obelix-Vendée Total Gardener

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          Obesity is, with very few exceptions, a disease of malnutrition - eating the wrong foods in the wrong quantities at the wrong times. Industrialised food processing has also stripped the calories consumed of their fibre, minerals, vitamins, proteins and healthy fats and replaced them with things that wreck our bodies.

          Even those who eat healthy foods can over eat as we are not programmed, in evolutionary terms, to eat 3 meals a day and snack in between. We used to eat once or twice a day and have fasting periods between hunting and gathering our food which was mostly proteins and unrefined nuts, fruits and seeds. Loads more exercise too.

          Teaching nutrition and cookery skills from an early age would go a long way to stop the obesity epidemic as would regulation of food processing. The UK has the highest percentage consumption of ultra processed food in Europe at about 57%, only 1 % behind the US - What is ultra-processed food and what does it mean for my health?

          UK rates of overweight and obesity at 64% for adults are higher than anywhere in Europe and increasingly high in childhood which is a huge worry for both the NHS and future social care. Ireland is next. France has a low consumption of ultra processed food and its obesity rates are also the lowest at 30%.

          Injections might help start people off on losing fat but the long term cure is a change in eating habits and greater knoweldge about nutrition. After all, we gardeners know that tomatoes and brassicas need good soil prep and feeding to grow well but not the same proportions of NPK. If that basic knowledge was extended to our own bodies' health and maintenance, we'd all be fitter.
           
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            Last edited: Jul 21, 2025
          • redstar

            redstar Total Gardener

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            It really depends on the type of Obesity we are talking about. Some gross obesity is Genetic, sadly a built-in metabolism issue . I truly believe our bodies have not caught up with the changes in the world, if we focus on the foods and activities our great great great great grandparents did then we should stay in decent weight. Today, a lot of sitting down in society. The foods so over processed with chemicals etc. And now the sitting down to look at screens.

            The lack of education on proper food selection is obvious, and knowledge. Was just told by a 60 year old women that she was on a dairy free diet, so when she selects pasta she makes sure there are no eggs in it. Roll eyes. And one person told me if you cook something long enough the salt will evaporate out. People need to read labels more etc. I am not my weight when I was 50, but have 10 extra, but according to my doctor I am healthy anyway. Out to my garden.
             
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            • Philippa

              Philippa Gardener

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              @CanadianLori sorry - I was actually joking :)
              As for obesity rates in the UK, when I returned here in 2012 after 10 years absence, 3 apparent changes were very noticeable to me.......... the number of overweight people, the use of mobility aids and the amount of litter decorating our hedgerows. 13 years on and if anything, it's just got worse.
               
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              • Obelix-Vendée

                Obelix-Vendée Total Gardener

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                @redstar we are all genetically programmed to store excess food as fat stores to keep us going when food sources are lean. What we eat can also programme our bodies to burn fat more readily and that's down to gut health, not genes.

                Eating a varied diet of natural proteins, fats, fruit and veg and unrefined carbs prepared without colourings, preservatives, taste enhancers, corn syrup with only naturally processed or fermented foods such as cheese and yogurt and kimchi or sauerkraut is what keeps our digestive systems and organs functioning at their best.
                 
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                • ViewAhead

                  ViewAhead Total Gardener

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                  Whenever we have a hot spell and the media rolls out a photo or video of the infamous 1976 heatwave and drought, the first thing I notice is everyone pictured looks a normal size.
                   
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                  • Thevictorian

                    Thevictorian Super Gardener

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                    For some, possibly a few, obesity is caused by illness but for the majority I do not believe that is the case and it is caused by their lifestyle. The government has removed junk food adverts from tv and banned (or planned to ban) new takeaways near shops, created a sugar tax etc because people are over indulging themselves.
                    I have no problem if someone with genuine medical need receives a fat jab but consumption is very disconnected from effect for an awful lot of people, who with better education would stand a better chance of being healthy without medical intervention. The truth is we don't know the long term damage these drugs can do and they seem to only surpress appetite when being used, which means stopping will take you back to square one.
                    I have a friend who is a surgeon and they had to take part in over 75 gastric band surgeries before they were allowed to go on their own. That number may sound a lot but it didn't take that long before they had reached it, the same for their colleagues, and it was only at one hospital.


                    I'm not calling out obese people, it is their choice if they use the drug or not but I don't think it's a healthy, universal, solution to the problem.
                     
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                    • CanadianLori

                      CanadianLori Total Gardener

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                      I admit I got quite heavy years ago. This was many years ago and I had a behind an axe handle across! Luckily, I could afford healthy food choices to cut back and still get my nutrition. I creep up a wee bit now and again, but stop myself at a set amount of bonus blubber. In the last five years I have made a point of staying in the middle of the healthy BMI range.

                      I feel sorry for people who suffer malnutrition because let's face it, a box of macaroni and cheese is a heck of a lot cheaper than vegetables or fruit and is much more filling. And usually it is their budget that pushes these choices. Particularly if you've got young mouths to feed. :sad:

                      What I cannot figure out is why were these drugs developed. They claim that it was for diabetes management but wasn't insulin already doing that task? So is it really about weight management with the pedestal people, is it more about vanity than health? These are not drugs you are supposed to take for a short term only and as a temporary means to reduce so that is even more alarming. :hate-shocked:
                       
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                      • ViewAhead

                        ViewAhead Total Gardener

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                        Drugs are developed to make money. Creating a jab for obesity will rake in billions. But, as @Thevictorian points out, no one knows the long term effects. There were some diet pills back in the 80s which turned out to have devastating impact on the muscles of the heart and had to be withdrawn, but not before people had died or had their heart weakened for life. The damage was irreversible.
                         
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                        • pete

                          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                          I'm overweight, but mostly around the middle, my arms and legs have hardly any fat.

                          I drink beer, which is probably my problem as I've never been a big eater, but I do like fried food and meat without fat is tasteless.

                          I probably dont eat enough fruit and veg, mainly because its not something that I consider a meal, its just side dressing.
                          I tend to eat mostly fish but cant stand boiled fish the smell always reminds me of washing day when I was a kid.

                          My veg intake is mostly potatoes and peas, if I buy other stuff it just goes off before I get round to eating it.

                          So not ideal I know but who wants to live for ever and be miserable.
                           
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                          • redstar

                            redstar Total Gardener

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                            will disagree with you, there are Obese genes folks do inherit, or genes that metabolize foods different thus causing obesity. I actually had a client with a rare genetic disorder that she could not metabolize carbohydrates, she was on a strick no carb diet. Lucky for her other signs were noted when she was a baby to get tests which determined she had that rare genetic issue. I know of others that have genetic inheritances that cause metabolizing of foods different.

                            Genetics of Obesity in Humans: A Clinical Review - PMC
                             
                            Last edited: Jul 21, 2025
                          • Philippa

                            Philippa Gardener

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                            I think many growers/breeders of fruit and veg have long lost the idea of flavour - the emphasis seems to be more on maximum crops, shelf life and size and shape to fit in their little cellophane packs. Those who grew up with that sort of flavourless food accept it as the norm so growers/suppliers continue.
                            I took some of my tomatoes round to a friend this morning and she told me she hadn't been able to get a decent tomato since I gave her some last year. She also mentioned the difficulty of finding decent fruit and veg in the shops.
                            All in all, I guess it's somewhat obscene to be moaning about lack of flavour when so many others are suffering starvation in other parts of the world.
                             
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                            • KT53

                              KT53 Total Gardener

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                              Obesity in the UK and probably most of the 'developed' world is more down to lifestyle and life choices than obesity although I'm not disputing that for some it is an illness. I'm overweight but don't put the blame on anything outside my control. I need to exercise more, reduce my alcohol intake (which I am already doing), and reduce my food intake. None of which are rocket science. The basic equation is a very simple one - intake of calories higher than calories used = weight gain.
                               
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