PUFAs and GC bought compost.

Discussion in 'Allotments Discussion' started by Allex50, Dec 2, 2025 at 12:03 PM.

  1. NigelJ

    NigelJ Total Gardener

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    I don't think it is economic to use Sylvagrow compost as a soil conditioner for your allotment; Melcourt do a soil improver that you could look at; well rotted manure or mushroom compost is available from a number of suppliers in bulk bags that you could use.
    To reduce risks wear gloves when handling and a dust mask when handling dry materials.
     
  2. Adam I

    Adam I Super Gardener

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    Apparently certain pfas are used intentionally as mechanical additives, like a lubricant, in certain pesticides and herbicides. I saw a news article from california that reported farmers were spraying tens of thousands of tonnes of them directly onto their crops, not even as an accident, fully intentionally by the chemical company, and as its not an active ingredient they dont legally have to declare it on the bottle...
    health effects arent known well but they are definately bad for you, probably not as bad as lead exposure from cars. but still just one more pollutant thats been dumped in the enviroment without legal consequences.

    there have been some rare issues with animal manure, some herbicide was applied to hay to dry it out and it transmitted through the cows as it wasnt readily biodegradable. but i agree hormones and stuff arent a worry.

    best thing for us is leaves. there is thoughts in permaculture circles if you use leaves from nitrogen fixing plants, apparently including alder and birch, you get good high N compost. dont know if true.

    sorry to be so negative! on the positive there are works to really hot ferment human sewage for use as manure for farms, which if they can do it well is our best most sustainable form of manure. perhaps best kept for the farmers though.

    The farmers near us are experimenting with stuff, one field has radishes and turnips growing in and then sheep are let out to devour it all, i guess to fertilise the soil whilst feeding them. Not a bad idea. The turnips were sown in august and theyre already enormous!
     
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      Last edited: Dec 5, 2025 at 7:43 AM
    • NigelJ

      NigelJ Total Gardener

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      They make good lubricants and for a number of reasons better than PTFE. Also used for waterproofing fabric and as coatings for non stick kitchenware and surfaces in industry; again better than PTFE. Problem is any excess or not properly attached to the surface can come off in washing.
      Another source is waste from making them and products containing them.
      Lead tetraethyl was horrific, very toxic and contaminated everything. If interested look it up and you'll find the same chemist who developed lead tetraethyl also came up with Freons, before fate intervened.
       
    • Escarpment

      Escarpment Total Gardener

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      As a vegan I would never use Fish, Blood and Bone. I have no problems with a chemically made fertiliser that contains all the nutrients my plants need, and see no reason why a "natural" product should be better.
       
    • NigelJ

      NigelJ Total Gardener

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      I thought this was standard practice; I remember it from childhood, seeing sheep in a muddy fields eating something growing there, have also seen them on brassica fields after harvest, eating sub standard crop left but also the bottom leaves and trimmings.
       
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      • Escarpment

        Escarpment Total Gardener

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        Birch leaves are something I have no shortage of!
         
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        • Escarpment

          Escarpment Total Gardener

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          My reason not to use Fish Blood and Bone is that as it's a bi-product of the meat industry I would be contributing to the profits of factory farming.
          Also, fish? Why are we denuding the seas of fish just to make fertilizer?
           
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          • Allotment Boy

            Allotment Boy Lifelong Allotmenteer

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            I may be wrong but my understanding of the fish element is that it comes from waste products. All the heads tails, and by products of gutting filleting etc.
            There was a programme on the BBC at the beginning of the week on PUFA's. Another thing that we humans have poisoned ourselves with. Known as forever chemicals as animals can't metabolise them, so, they build up in bodies and the environment. You would like to think we learned our lesson with DDT, and others, but obviously not.
            Silent spring was published in the UK the year I was born, in the 70 plus years since, we've learned nothing.
             
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            • NigelJ

              NigelJ Total Gardener

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              I know they "vacuum up" sandeels for use in making food for livestock, farmed fish, fish oil and similar.
              Snag is they are also eaten by a range of larger fish that are commercially fished, as well as Puffins and other seabirds, last year fishing for sandeels was banned in English and Scottish waters to conserve them and protect a seabird food source.
               
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              • Adam I

                Adam I Super Gardener

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                The Mercury you hear about in fish is mostly from coal and mining run off :mad: thankfully mercury isnt very bioavailable for fish so its only a problem in big carnivorous fish.

                we also have mined enough arsenic as mining biproducts to kill all animal life on earth many times over (some bacteria like arsenic and mercury! :dbgrtmb:). interestingly recent science suggests arsenic is a necessary mineral for animal life in tiny doses so maybe we can sell some of it as expensive supplements
                 
                Last edited: Dec 5, 2025 at 10:08 AM
              • NigelJ

                NigelJ Total Gardener

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                The major issue with inorganic fertilisers including growmore is the energy used to produce them as mostly they need high temperatures and pressures to produce.
                 
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                • NigelJ

                  NigelJ Total Gardener

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                  PFAs are the latest in a number of "forever chemicals" including dioxins (impurity in Agent Orange among other things.), brominated fire retardants. The fat soluble ones build up in top predators like polar bears and Orca.
                  Then there are chemicals that do break down, but sufficient goes through the sewage works and have effects on the environment. Anti depressants can cause fish and frogs to lose their fear of predators, as do recreational drugs, sedatives and they become easier to catch. Hormones, especially female ones, affect the ratio of male to female offspring and cause fish to develop deformed reproductive organs.
                   
                • Escarpment

                  Escarpment Total Gardener

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                  But surely they also process animal byproducts at high temperatures, to remove any pathogens?

                  How to operate an animal by-product (ABP) processing facility
                   
                • NigelJ

                  NigelJ Total Gardener

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                  @Escarpment you are right, however the Bosch Haber process runs at 400°C and 200 atmospheres, reacts hydrogen with nitrogen then the ammonia produced then has to be separated and liquified, some of the ammonia is then oxidised to form nitric acid that is reacted with the ammonia to give ammonium nitrate. Hydrogen generally comes from an energy intensive process and the nitrogen has to be extracted and purified.
                   
                • Escarpment

                  Escarpment Total Gardener

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                  But I guess we couldn't product enough organic fertilisers to supply the needs of large-scale agriculture. We probably could if we were all eating plants, but given we have to grow masses more plants to feed the animals we eat, to then get the organic waste from to feed the masses of fodder crops ...
                   
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