Smart Meters

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by pete, Oct 18, 2014.

  1. JWK

    JWK Gardener Staff Member

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    I didn't notice them on your Open Day shiney, then looked at some of the photos I'd taken and there they are! Just shows they aren't very intrusive.
     
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    • JWK

      JWK Gardener Staff Member

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      View from the top of my garden of my neighbour's panels (2 houses to the left of mine), they are just for hot water not PV so they do stand out a bit more. To begin with I did notice them and they are not very pretty, but as time passes and more and more folk fit them I don't mind them:

      20140820-P8200032.jpg
       
      Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
    • shiney

      shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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      John, almost everyone that comes along says the same thing. Although they're definitely noticeable, nobody seems to see them!

      Kandy, I've just taken a photo of them and they are quite noticeable in the picture but when you're actually here your eye edits them out. It's now been shown that having the panels actually helps sell the house. They give an added value as they reduce your power bills quite considerably and receive a payment (Feed In Tariff) through the government. Well over £1,000 p.a.

      The panels show up a fair amount on our type of roof but, as I said, people just don't notice them :scratch:

      P1210927.JPG

      Our roof is brown whereas the panels are black. If they were on a black slate roof they would not show up as much. Our summerhouse has a slate roof.
      P1210928.JPG
       
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      • shiney

        shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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        The hot water ones are a lot more bulky.
         
      • Vertically Challenged

        Vertically Challenged Gardener

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        due to the way power generation works it's very inefficient to run the power plants at anything less than 100% all the time with coal. So they need to use gas for peaking power (Which is very very inefficient 5-20 times the emissions and cost) solar panels make very little difference to how we generate power or overall emissions but they do cost us a fortune in feed in tarrifs.

        We would be far better off to invest in energy storage to use the energy we create effectively than to add more generation capacity from renewables which is getting wasted.

        Renewables will only ever work with a viable energy storage solution BUT solar panels are cheaper than batteries per kw/h and more voter friendly so will continue to dominate our flawed energy policies for years to come.


        We could reduce emissions by half by actually using the energy created the 50%+ is lost due to lack of storage facilities.

        For offgrid applications solar is excellent for on grid it's distinctively flawed in it's present form.

        Wind suffers exactly the same problems and the added problem of maintenence (Moving parts) wind is also a lot less predictable making it even harder to balance peak power.

        Mark my words energy storage is the next big thing NOT renewables, renewables will come later. I very much doubt we will ever generate everything we need from solar or wind but maybe the ocean eventually from temperature gradient. (The ocean is solar powerered so I guess indirect solar.)

        If I was in charge the severn estuary would have been dammed a long time ago :)

        I supsect the environmental impact would have been far less than burning fossil fuels for power as we do now.


        Solar water heating has inbuilt storage and is far more likely to reduce emmisions.

        Aesethics are meaningless to me when it comes to power generation it's just too important.
         
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          Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
        • Kandy

          Kandy Will be glad to see the sun again soon.....

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          Shiney,I think your slate roof looks rather cool as in:cool: And the black panels don't look too bad against your pantile tiles.Perhaps the modern solar panels look a bit better than the ones of a few years ago:)

          One of my village friends has a neighbour who has had them installed on their roof and when my friend sits in her garden all she sees is those panels and she said that they give off a glare when they are sitting outside in the summer,but not sure if she was just winding me up:biggrin:

          JWK,how come my indeed is missing the I whereas in my post the I is there?I am afraid your photo doesn't show up on my tablet just a square with a cross in it:scratch:

          Still haven't got thousands of £'s to spare to have them fitted and we like our fake slate roof plus we don't have a South facing roof to spare to put them on.Our only South facing wall is on the side of the garage and we have plants growing up that wall:snork:
           
        • shiney

          shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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          Agreed, but there have been vast improvements in storage even just this year. I don't think it will be long before they have improved it enough to make it a viable option. I think that the gel storage batteries have been making the biggest advance - but I don't know much about them.

          As I know very little about the wastage of energy that has already been created, I'm not able to make any judgements or deductions from the information. :scratch: :sad: How is there wastage of what has already been produced? If there is, then it's silly and should be sorted out.

          I use as much of my production as possible and the rest goes back into the grid.


          Now this is something I have done some research into! :blue thumb: I've been comparing power production on my south facing panels with people who only have due east facing panels. Over a period of a year there's very little difference - approx. 300kWh. This is because the south facing panels don't get the early morning or late evening sun (except in the winter) because the sun rises in the north east and sets in the north west for half the year.
          http://suncalc.net/#/51.508,-0.125,20/2014.10.23/13:34

          We all have software that calculates our power production every 10 minutes and we can compare very accurately. :dbgrtmb:
           
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          • JWK

            JWK Gardener Staff Member

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            Dunno about the "I".

            The photo was an attachment from another thread on here, so I've edited the above post and copied the photo across - more funnies from the GC forum software. Let me know if you can see it now.
             
          • Vertically Challenged

            Vertically Challenged Gardener

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            unfortunately it's not that easy we have to generate an excess of what we need to ensure there's no blackouts the power not used is lost in the system (Heat loss) the system has no storage capacity so any excess power generated is bled off as heat. The whole thing is a guess because they can't use real time monitoring as by the time they see the spike the power has already browned out.

            The power stations also use massive cooling towers (Heat that could be used) and produce of course co2.

            The solution is massive multi acre greenhouses to utilise the heat and co2 but that's not what our government want. Excess power could easily be used in municpal style heating projects (heat water when demand is low and use the water to heat homes when power demand is high)

            They'd rather we move 50% of our food 5000 miles+ and shunt the co2 emissions on to someone elses doorstep.

            Totally unsustainable the way we produce food now I believe lights to grow food is far far far more efficient than growing it on the other side of the world. We will within another 20 years be eating locally fresh produced produce once again or 3d printed poo.

            Modern supermarket food isn't food though it's kind of like playdough but worse tasting :)
             
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            • Phil A

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              2 of my panels are fixed south facing, but the third I can move around to catch the morning and evening sun. I hang it over the west facing window as a sunblind in the afternoon :biggrin:
               
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              • Vertically Challenged

                Vertically Challenged Gardener

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              • shiney

                shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                VC, I checked on the website you gave a link to and it shows a little difference between that and our (friends and myself) actual, empirical, figures. They both conclude that it's a myth that it isn't worth having the panels if they are orientated much from due south. :blue thumb:

                Zigs, Well done. Having movable panels is much better! :dbgrtmb:
                 
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                • Scrungee

                  Scrungee Well known for it

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                  Every time I've driven past Didcot I've wondered why on earth don't they productively use the heat they're losing in the cooling towers which appears to be a monumental waste of energy.
                   
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                  • Vertically Challenged

                    Vertically Challenged Gardener

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                    That site is the one I would use to plan solar

                    I LOVE your signature Shiney so so very true:)
                     
                  • shiney

                    shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                    It's one of the many good quotes from Robert A. Heinlein :blue thumb:
                     
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