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Zeal Does Not Rest - it does now

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Loofah, Oct 19, 2010.

  1. Loofah

    Loofah Admin Staff Member

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    A fond fairwell to HMS Ark Royal then:( The Navy, it appears, is going to the dogs. Mind you, if it were ever any different I would have been surprised!

    On the plus side, we are getting 2 new carriers although no planes to fly on them. Work that one out.

    Thanks Whitehall.
     
  2. Doghouse Riley

    Doghouse Riley Head Gardener

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    Hmm..

    Will she be scrapped, or be sold to some third-world country we're continuously baling out?
     
  3. Loofah

    Loofah Admin Staff Member

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    Officially, scrapped. That can be actual scrap but also mothballed or sold to another country...
     
  4. JWK

    JWK Gardener Staff Member

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    The whole defence review has been a disaster, the decision to build the new carriers has been on/off for years, they are costing way more than they should because of the MoD's ditherings.

    I'm also really disappointed that the Harriers are being 'retired', not just because I worked on them for over 20 years, it's such a shame so much has been spent modernising them just for them to be chucked on the scrapheap for no benefit. So now we will have aircraft carriers but no jets. There has been some talk of us 'borrowing' french jets in case of emergency - Nelson must be spinning in his grave.

    At least they are cutting 25,000 civilian jobs at the MoD, hopefully that means much less red tape for the little manufacturing industry that we have left here in the UK.
     
  5. pete

    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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    I think this must be now offical, we are, "the laughing stock of the world", when it comes to defence.

    We like to meddle in other countries, but if we carry on we are going to catch a cold.

    I think the idea of a world power must be dropped before we suffer a very large defeat in some out of the way, back water.
     
  6. JWK

    JWK Gardener Staff Member

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    I think Cameron said we have been 'punching above our weight', thats true since WWII sadly.

    pete, much as it pains me to say this I think our only option is to join forces with Europe, we have to face reality and realise we no longer sit at the world's top table.
     
  7. Loofah

    Loofah Admin Staff Member

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    I saw that Cameron mentioned a move from dealing with conventional threats to 'unconventional'... Presumably that means we are expecting not to have any more decisive battles at sea (fair enough, it isn't very likely) and moving toward remote threat removal and more 'special' tactics. Can a surface fleet of just 19 reliably and effectively provide defence of the realm? The UK can only act in a support role as it is, with the reductions how are we to adequately provide the defence?

    I wonder if SMART procurement is being scrapped too? Without the 25, 000 civvies to tie it in knots, who will buy new equipment?! Ah. I see now - we won't be buying anything but borrowing it from other countries!
     
  8. barnaby

    barnaby Gardener

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    This looks like being our 'winter of discontent' - the likely fall out from all thes cuts in the Defence budget will be many job losses in both manufacturing and the service industries who currently supply our armed forces.
     
  9. Chopper

    Chopper Do I really look like a people person?

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    If ever I meet that smug swine Cameron, his pal Clegg or Osbourne, I swear I will get arrested for punching them hard in thier smug faces.

    Between the two world wars, our less than illustrious governments slashed the armed forces repeatedly. To the point that many of our defence commitments were badly undermanned. Places like Singapore were sitting ducks for the Japanese.

    The only politician with the guts to sdtand up and shout that the government were making stupid and dangerous mistakes was Sir Winston Churchill. Many times he was shouted down and ridiculed for his demands to strengthen our forces.

    WW11 came as a bit of a shoick to most politicians, yet most of the British public were expecting it. The BEF was so laughably and tragically under manned and out gunned they stood no chance against the massive military machine that was the Third Riech. New weapons, new tactics, fresh troops, an airforce that was already battle hardened by the civil war in Spain.

    We still have serious defence commitments in far flung places like The Falkland Islands. Without the skill, courage and dedication of our armed forces The Falklands would now be in Argentine hands. The United Nations peace keeping forces would be left high and dry. Our own borders would be a very easy target for any crackpot that wanted to have a crack at us.

    British armed forces, not so very long ago, were the envy of the world. Just the thought of our Royal Navy appearing on the horizon was enough to keep most beligerants quiet. The Harriers still are an absolutely formidable force to reckon with. I have seen them and the navy in action. I have seen action on the ground and have been very glad to see the navy and air force backing us up, getting us were we needed to be quickly and making sure we had everything we needed.

    Having the best troops in the world is no good if you don't supply them with what they need to win the fights that idiotic politicians start. Why are the armed forces being slashed AGAIN, when our politicians are giving away something in the order of 8 billion pounds of our tax money, to foreigners that will waste it? Great Britain NEEDS that money. Charity begins at home.

    Chopper. :mad::mad::mad:
     
  10. JWK

    JWK Gardener Staff Member

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    I must admit to being shocked when they said we were stopping handing out aid to China today. I had no idea we were handing out money to a country that is much weathier than us :cnfs:
     
  11. pete

    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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    I didn't know that either John.

    If we are in the dire situation they like to make us think we are you have got to wonder why we are giving aid to any other countries.
    Maybe we should be asking them for some:D
     
  12. JWK

    JWK Gardener Staff Member

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    pete, the problem with a lot of foreign aid is it encourages corruption or is used to buy equipment that they don't need. The same would happen if it was the other way round and the Chinese gave our govt a handout, do you think the ordinary people would benefit?
     
  13. Loofah

    Loofah Admin Staff Member

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    I wholly agree with Chopper's sentiments. It pains me to see the Navy I served in reduced to a mockery; I hate to say it but the benefits and aid we give to other nations, whilst needed and worthy, must be dramatically reduced if we're not to suffer.
     
  14. Chopper

    Chopper Do I really look like a people person?

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    Thanks Loofah

    I cannot see any valid reason for the Uk to give billions of our tax money to ANY other country. Many of the countries that receive our money are suffering due to thier own stupidity.

    For example, the recent floods in Pakistan. They are a nuclear power, which is a major cause for concern in itself. The costs involved for building and maintaining a nuclear arsenal are horrendous. The same people that fund this arsenal are fully aware of thier own countrys' geographical situation. The whole area is know to be at risk of major flooding. Why did they not spend thier money on adequate flood defences instead of an arsenal that will most likely never be used?

    Very little foreign aid actually gets to the people that really need it. Instead it gets stolen by corrupt politicians and war lords, tribal chiefs.

    I refuse to donate a single penny to any of the aid charities. I am far more concerned about making sure my stepdaughter has a roof over her head and the best possible start I can provide when she goes out to look for a job.

    We should be stopping ALL foreign aid immediately. Closing our borders to absolutely any foreigner that does not have adequate funds to support him/herself for the entire duration of thier stay. Deporting every illegal immigrant via the cheapest means available. Make people get a grip of the fact that having children is NOT a right, it is a privilage. If you want kids then you should only have them if you can fully support them until they can fend for themselves.

    I really believe that the cause of most of this once great countrys problems is that there are far too many people here. Far too many of those that are here fail to grsp basic facts that there is only so much in the pot. The more that are taking from the pot, the smaller the portions. Only so much is and can be topped up.

    I am on a cost cutting mission at home. Due to my health problems, my income is reduced. So we will make do with one vehicle instead of two. The vehicle will have to be duel purpose and fuel efficient. I have got the gardening bug so I am planning to make best use of the veg plot and the freezer. If I can see the writing on the wall as an individual, those that we elect to run our national finances must do the same. Then we hit a catch 22.

    None of our gutless politicians have the backbone to do the right thing for the people that elect them. They are all too busy looking out for themselves, grovelling at the alter of human and civil rights and the politically correct stormtroopers.

    I used to be fiercly proud of serving queen and country. Now I often wonder why I bothered.

    Chopper.
     
  15. Val..

    Val.. Confessed snail lover

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    Chopper, I agree with absolutely everything you say, we most definitely think alike!!!!! :yez:

    Val
     
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