Whaaattt?

I didn't mean it was an old Peta story, just that the situation itself is "old" @NigelJ

 

I am fully aware of that and I suspect it's the same film as has been shown in cinemas recently.

 

What I find hard/devastating to understand is that it would appear that the majority of people think it's OK.

 

Has the number of protesters killed during Iran's crackdown recently ever been verified ? The figure given previously was 30,000 plus. I suspect it is practically impossible to get anywhere near the truth about that once you get into the tens of thousands. As for Trump telling the citizens of Iran to stand up to the regime, I'd like to see him personally join in the protests and risk torture and death himself.
Add Trump to the list of those who do not consider international laws apply to them.

 

They don't know. The WTA is looking into it!

 

Iran has every reason to be angry at and mistrustful of the USA and its local allies as well as the UK. In 1953 the US and UK conspired together - Operation Ajax - to remove a democratically elected PM who had the audacity to nationalise Iranian oil and take it out of British control. That was under a Labour government led by Attlee.

They installed the man known as the Shah who ruled for the next 26 years using his brutal SAVAK secret police to quash opposition with the support of the US and UK because he kept the oil flowing. Then he ceased to be useful and we got the Ayatollahs in charge with their own extremist views about oppression.

It's no wonder they allied themselves with Putin and have been supplying oil to China altho Putin has not helped except with intelligence. China, meanxhile, is playing its long game and has introduced more solar and wind power in the last few years than the USA has altogether. It's shutting down its dependence on coal and oil, planting millions of trees to reclaim desert and change rain patterns and making new trade deals with Canada and south America to bypass US tariffs and trading leverage.

The entire US operation in Iran is illegal in terms of both the US constitution and international law and cocaine fuelled Hegseth is treating it like a computer game, boasting how many people and resources the US plans to take out each day with no thought to innocent victims or future complications and, least of all, rebuilding.

I've got to the point where I wonder how any sane politican in the rest of the world cannot be seen to condemn utterly the US and Israel assaults and refuse to comply or condone.

 

You can wring your hands about what we did or didn't do years ago, but bear in mind it wasn't us, it was those that went before us.
Personally I've never forgiven the Romans for invading us, and as for that Viking lot, well, then there was that French bloke in 1066, the list could go on, what's done is done.

The hear and now is what matters IMO.

I find it strange that the BBC are reporting a B1 bomber landing at Fairford, when the plane spotters were on Facebook reporting F22s and F35s landing at Lakenheath a week before this all started, and they were even saying enroute to Israel.

 

Trump is not an ideas man. He can be relied on by those pulling the strings to put unpalatable stuff out there and deflect any flak using outrage. He has no statesman reputation or much future to worry about. Heaven sent for those who want to bypass the normal political and diplomatic processes.

 

Aye - true enough but that's why rules/laws are essential and need to be taught and adhered to whether you are 5 years old or 50. It would be naive to think that every "playground bully" grows up to become a normal citizen as everyday life proves otherwise. It's when those who retain that sort of behaviour throughout their lives ( particularly when religion and financial gain is added to the mix ) become world leaders that it becomes more serious. Iran's crackdown on the protesters is a case in point. Altho on a lesser scale ( only 2 deaths ), the US also cracked down on it's protesters. Other dictatorial leaders are doing the same. All very well if fighting violence with violence is what a person believes in but it's always the "ordinary" people who feel the brunt of it hence my suggestion of Trump and the rest of them spending a few days on their particular frontline to see what it feels like.
I don't pretend to know the answer ( wish I did ) but I don't believe constant war mongering is likely to improve life for the masses.
I do agree that the average person is unlikely to ever know half the story as to the background of most of what goes on today.

 

The Brits have always prided themselves on having the mother of all parliaments and democratic rule so what they did in Iran in '53 I found shocking when I read about it, all the more so for it being a Labour govt. tho I do know the Brits aren't innocent in such matters.

The USA is a serial regime change offender so it's not such a surprise but they have, till this presidency, prided themsleves on the checks and balances in their constitution where laws, tariffs, going to war have to be agreed by Congress. This bunch are a parcel of wusses afraid to stand up to trump or benefitting financially from his policies. or both.

I don't think Iran will forgive or forget and I think the US is in for decades of reprisals in one form or another because either the extremist ayatollahs will stay in power and send out fatwas and militants and terrorists to wreak havoc or there will one day be some form of democratic govt that won't forgive the lives lost and town wrecked in all the bombardments. They'll also go after anyone they deem guilty of aiding and abetting.

 

I think the whole world will always get trouble from these kinds of religious fanatics whether you upset them or not, lets face it they breed hatred wherever they go.

Its not possible to totally wipe them out only keep them under.

Its only a few weeks ago we were seeing posts about how despicable the Iranian regime are and how they treat women etc.

How quickly people change.