How to Make "Moist, Well drained, Fertile" Soil?

Discussion in 'General Gardening Discussion' started by Kristen, Apr 3, 2012.

  1. Kristen

    Kristen Under gardener

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2006
    Messages:
    17,534
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Suffolk, UK
    Ratings:
    +12,671
    From the spreadsheet I have made of the requirements for the various things I am planting this Spring many/most seem to want "Moist, Well drained, Fertile" Soil.

    I have heavy clay ...

    I have a Plan B for next year, but Plan A for this year is:

    Scrape back the mulch (couple of inches of well rotted muck spread last Summer/Autumn)

    Dig out the stodgy block of clay (a spade's width, square). Put that into a barrow (well, about 50% of them I chuck at the back of the border as I'm planting from 2L and 3L containers, so that much is spare from each planting hole)

    When I have 2 or 3 blocks of clay "top soil" Ha!Ha! in the barrow mix with a generous helping of horticultural grit and then I scavenge a couple of shovel-fulls of muck-mulch from the bed. Mix it all together. Put that in a monster-sized flower-pot (the sort with handles) and roll it around a bit (and then lug it into the bed next to the planting hole). That makes my "planting soil".

    Loosen the bottom of the planting hole, chuck a couple of handfuls of grit in, mix that in.

    Knock the plant out of the pot, plonk it in, back fill around it with the "planting soil", push back the muck-mulch

    Plan B for next year's "planting soil" is:

    Each year I replace the soil in the greenhouse. The new soil is 50% well rotted manure and 50% compost heap (and an additional, smaller percentage, of soil). Last years discard (which is now even more rotted, with less weed seeds having been warm and damp in the greenhouse all summer such that pretty much all weed seeds have germinated) has previously gone on the Asparagus bed and any other veg beds.

    My thinking is to "store" the soil from the planting holes (in a pile, covered with taupaulin) and mix that 50:50 with the muck/compost mix that has come out of the greenhouse. So any new planting holes will be: cart the soil to the greenhouse, to use next year, and back-fill the plant with the "planting soil mix"

    Will what I am doing this year make "Moist, Well drained, Fertile" Soil?

    Is next year's Plan B an even better version of "Moist, Well drained, Fertile" Soil?

    Any other suggestions?
     
  2. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2019
    Messages:
    48,096
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +100,851
    Can I watch, Kristen??!!:snork:
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Kristen

      Kristen Under gardener

      Joined:
      Jul 22, 2006
      Messages:
      17,534
      Gender:
      Male
      Location:
      Suffolk, UK
      Ratings:
      +12,671
      Do you think there is a market for a Voyeur Compost Brand then? !!

      Not much watering-in required, given the amount I sweat into the mixing bucket!
       
    • Kristen

      Kristen Under gardener

      Joined:
      Jul 22, 2006
      Messages:
      17,534
      Gender:
      Male
      Location:
      Suffolk, UK
      Ratings:
      +12,671
      I used to stay with a good school chum of mine each Summer - I was probably about 12 or 13 - his Mum was a keen gardener, and I was getting interested by that age. She was OCD about everything to do with her gardening - including the temperature of her compost heap, the mix, and the Q.R. accelerator that she used ... actually she was like that about most things, but she was a fabulous cook, great hostess, and her garden was amazing ... so I took it in my stride. My mate and I mixed planting soil for her. Cement mixer (I kid you not) to mix the soil and muck. Can't remember if we used anything else, she gardened on a hillside in Derbyshire, I don't suppose drainage was a problem. Pity *Dim* wasn't around to tell her about his Compost Tea back then, she would have had a complete brewery up and running in days to get the results he talks of :blue thumb:

      I took a suitable sized pinch-of-salt at the amount of effort she put into the soil in her borders ... but it looks like I'm starting to resemble her!
       
    • ARMANDII

      ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

      Joined:
      Jan 12, 2019
      Messages:
      48,096
      Gender:
      Male
      Ratings:
      +100,851
      There's always a market for something if you package it right:snork:

      Plan A does sound like a lot of effort and sweat, I'm afraid. The trouble with clay is that it doesn't break down well or mix well without an awful lot of spade work and effort. But Plan A will work over time as you keep putting backfill in of planting soil mix.:biggrin:
       
    • Kristen

      Kristen Under gardener

      Joined:
      Jul 22, 2006
      Messages:
      17,534
      Gender:
      Male
      Location:
      Suffolk, UK
      Ratings:
      +12,671
      Hmmm ... I don't see it like that, but then I've never had a garden with perfect loam like Monty's I suppose ...

      I have to make a planting hole, I want to add some "improvers". I could do that in the planting hole (indeed, I used to do it like that) - dig hole, mix muck with the soil, backfill that around the plant.

      Its not, for me, a big step from that to putting the extracted soil into the barrow, mixing it more thoroughly, and with more ingredients (grit as well as muck, plus I could add some fertilizer too I suppose ... leaf mould would be better, that would get me some beneficial fungi too ...)

      Do you have "perfect loam"? If not what do you do when planting something new?
       
    • ARMANDII

      ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

      Joined:
      Jan 12, 2019
      Messages:
      48,096
      Gender:
      Male
      Ratings:
      +100,851
      I think you're in the top bracket of gardeners who put a lot of effort into a garden, and don't think anything of it, Kristen.:thumbsup: A lot of gardeners aren't able to put a lot of effort into their garden due to age, health, and fitness but would love to be able to do so.

      The method you're using is spot on and shows how committed you are to improving the soil, but a lot of people wouldn't be capable of doing it. All the ingredients are exactly what's needed for what you're doing so just keep on doing it!!

      I bought my house, brand new, back in 78 and the garden was the usual builders disaster. I discovered, after a while, that underneath the compressed clay, plastic sheeting, bricks, cement, mortar, timber, gravel, etc, was sand......going down 300' to 400' or more. Next to my House on the other side of the road, about 25 yards away, was a Roman sand quarry which gives you an indication of how much sand there was!
      So it was a hungry, thin soil where rain just sank through. I put 90 ton of top soil on it only to find it just gave an inch of depth. So I put another 92 ton of top soil on it and then over the years gradually improved the soil by adding straw, compost, manure, any thing I could use. It changed slowly over the years before I could grow reasonable crops on the veg plot [now a big border] and even get good results on the most ordinary shrubs and flowers. I wouldn't say that it's the "perfect loam" but it does, now, have plenty of humus, fibre, and nutrients in it. It holds water better than it did in 78 but even now if we have a heavy rain storm I can walk onto the lawn after it's finished and the top water has drained away. It's very easy to work and dig but here and there if I dig too deep I hit pure sand.

      I do wish you luck with yours, my friend:thumbsup::snork::biggrin:
       
    • Steve R

      Steve R Soil Furtler

      Joined:
      Feb 15, 2008
      Messages:
      3,892
      Gender:
      Male
      Occupation:
      Carer
      Location:
      Cumbria
      Ratings:
      +3,703
      My garden and allotment plots are all clay. When I plant I dig planting hole I loosen the bottom, throw in a handful of FB&B then plant and backfill. Constantly digging over the garden, weeding, hoeing, replanting, mulching, manuring etc etc....eventually starts to work it's magic and after 5 years of this our garden is starting to get good soil. But our allotment plots are a long way away and are just clay at present.

      Rotovating, after digging helps to break it down for easier planting but it will need some humous in it to stop it "clagging" together again and to this end I collected a lot of leaves last autumn as I will every autumn from now on, but the real magic comes from the manuring, turning over, hoeing etc.

      But from this next winter I will be growing green manure over winter (on the allotment plots), a mix of Rye grass and vetch, rye for the humous and vetch for nitrogen fixing, this should help with soil conditioning and clay breakdown, but it will still be 5 years or more before the soil is as good as my garden soil, and the gardens is still a few years away from being good too.

      Steve...:)
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Kristen

        Kristen Under gardener

        Joined:
        Jul 22, 2006
        Messages:
        17,534
        Gender:
        Male
        Location:
        Suffolk, UK
        Ratings:
        +12,671
        I've only ever gardened to clay, so I have no idea how different sand is. I dream of being able to dig without it all sticking to the spade, and having to stand up and clean the spade off every few spade-fulls (you'll know me when you meet me, I'm the one with my right-hand-back-pocket stretched from having to keep a wall-paper scraper in it when digging!). But I don't fancy spoil that just drains in seconds ...

        So, on balance, I think I would prefer clay.

        I've read Christo Lloyds writings waxing lyrical about horticultural grit. This year is the first time I've tried it. It seems so inconsequential mixing it with the clay ... I suppose I'm just looking for some reassurance that the effort is worthwhile, so thanks for that. I'm not finding it a chore, at all, but it is slower than just plonking them in. (Plant B will be better, mixing the "planting soil mix" in Winter will mean I don't have to do that whilst planting out. I am managing to get about 10 - 15 plants in each evening after work, so over a month that's plenty :) and about matches the rate they are coming out of greenhouse for hardening off ...

        tell you what ... how much sand can you get in your boot? When we meet I'll bring you an equal quantity of clay as a swap :)
         
        • Like Like x 1
        • Kristen

          Kristen Under gardener

          Joined:
          Jul 22, 2006
          Messages:
          17,534
          Gender:
          Male
          Location:
          Suffolk, UK
          Ratings:
          +12,671
          Steve my veg patch is fixed, and was in good useable state from Day One.

          I made lazy (no retaining sides) raised beds 4' wide, NEVER walked on them, covered them with Muck in the Autumn for the worms to "dig in", have not dug it since (although it is dug to harvest Spuds, Parsnips, Leeks, etc.) and I rotavate (with a Mantis) all the beds in Spring (except Brassicas that I want as-hard-as-iron). Plenty of compost goes on the beds too.

          I've never had any trouble lifting root veg in cold weather (even at -10C when folk were saying they couldn't get their 'Snips out of the ground).

          When I made the beds raised it was by digging out one spit depth from the "paths" and heaping it on the beds. The improvement surprised even me (not done raised beds before).

          Making the lazy raised beds:

          IMG_1801_MakingLazyRaisedBeds.jpg

          Now converting them to more "poncy" raised beds, with proper edging :)

          IMG_1756_NewRaisedBeds.jpg
           
          • Like Like x 2
          • Jenny namaste

            Jenny namaste Total Gardener

            Joined:
            Mar 11, 2012
            Messages:
            18,904
            Gender:
            Female
            Occupation:
            retired- blissfully retired......
            Location:
            Battle, East Sussex
            Ratings:
            +34,583
            Kristen, what a lovely little tale about your school chum's mum. She obviously left her passion for her garden in your young soul. For me, at the age of 7 , our new school (Elphinstone Junior) was built along the end of our road. There were grounds to plant up , an employed gardener and a greenhouse. In class, I always wanted to be flower monitor -changing the water daily, removing spent flowers and arranging new ones. How wonderful that my teacher directed me to the Gardener who let me help him in the greenhouse. It was he who showed me the wonder of seedlings:pricking them out and the need for early care. Then to see nemesia,petunia,antirhinum and geraniums come to flower in the school grounds made my time at Elphinstone a great pleasure. Never a clever kid - but just scraped through the 11+. My parents had no interest in the soil -only rented so it's not the same. Too busy workng too. Latterly, I adored Geoff Hamilton and his clever "make and mend" mentality. My sympathey extended to you regarding clay. Wretched stuff. Had loads in previous gardens, but not in the little wee patch here in Battle. Good luck,
            Jenny namaste
             
            • Like Like x 2
            • Kristen

              Kristen Under gardener

              Joined:
              Jul 22, 2006
              Messages:
              17,534
              Gender:
              Male
              Location:
              Suffolk, UK
              Ratings:
              +12,671
              Sounds like when I was at 6th form college. I did Computer Science as an optional. The computer (a room the size of a house in those days!) was run by Wendy. Ah ... Wendy ... :)

              I got 98% in Computer Science, and just scraped my A levels! I've had a successful career in Computers though - thanks Wendy :)
               
            • Steve R

              Steve R Soil Furtler

              Joined:
              Feb 15, 2008
              Messages:
              3,892
              Gender:
              Male
              Occupation:
              Carer
              Location:
              Cumbria
              Ratings:
              +3,703
              Mine too, but I'm talking about the beds being in "good heart", rich in humus and free draining, as my garden is now becoming. The Allotment plots will take some time for the manure I have to rot down to be used, and the green manure over the next winter. Next Spring should see them in fairly good condition, but they are still useable this season.

              It sounds to me like you would be better of rotovating your beds Kristen and adding your grit to the whole bed rather than in planting holes, would probably save you a lot of work in the long run.

              Steve...:)
               
            • Kristen

              Kristen Under gardener

              Joined:
              Jul 22, 2006
              Messages:
              17,534
              Gender:
              Male
              Location:
              Suffolk, UK
              Ratings:
              +12,671
              My lazy raised veg beds had good drainage from day one (I surprised myself!). 5 years on the soil is not a lot different, but clearly better. I'm afraid I deal with it "when I remember" rather than systematically. I do muck it in the Autumn, but I have green manure seed sitting on the desk beside me from last year - in a pile of "good intentions" :(

              Hmmm ... "quite a lot of grit" then? I'm only doing "planting soil" for herbaceous plants at present; trees and shrubs just get some muck in the bottom of the hole and mycorrhizal fungi around the rootball. Vegetables get no grit at all.

              I couldn't find a source of (affordable!) 1 tonne bags, so I bought half a pallet of 25kg bags @ £4.20 each ... doing the maths if I could get 1 tonne bags, delivered, at £150 that would do me.
               
              • Like Like x 1
              • Steve R

                Steve R Soil Furtler

                Joined:
                Feb 15, 2008
                Messages:
                3,892
                Gender:
                Male
                Occupation:
                Carer
                Location:
                Cumbria
                Ratings:
                +3,703
              Gardeners Corner is dependent on Donation to keep running, if you enjoy using Gardeners Corner, please consider donating to help us with our operating costs.
              Loading...

              Share This Page

              1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
                By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
                Dismiss Notice