Compost in general

Discussion in 'Compost, Fertilisers & Recycling' started by Cuttings, Feb 24, 2020.

  1. Cuttings

    Cuttings Super Gardener

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    Having read posts, and dealt with the general public, the one thing that puzzles people about compost is, why does the results change from year to year, when you know how its made, things become a little clearer, this post is about multi purpose or all purpose compost, I have had tours of the places that make the compost the general public use, and the compost the professional uses.
    There are 4 types of general growing media, soil based like the John Innes, age proven recipes in numberc1,2,3 etc, retail compost, that made for the general public, professional media, and homemade compost.
    Homemade is great, as long as its done properly, you control what goes in it, alas, some people dont have the space, some who rent are not allowed to make it due to clauses in the lease, or cant be asked, the rest are made by for profit companies, some beleive these companies do the same as the garden composter on a larger scale, this is not true.
    What these companies do, is have contracted producers that produce 1 element of the compost, which is shipped to the plant where the compost is made, to a recipe, to sell on, so whats the difference.
    Plants will grow given the opportunity, you could grow a plant using those little polystyrene balls as growing media, you would be constantly feeding and watering, to get any sort of growth, so here is the difference.
    Professional growing media, this is produced in clean conditions, peat or the peat replacement or partial replacement, and other ingredients are checked by chemical analysis that each shipment is of the required quality, presise amounts of the ingredients are measured, and the process of mixing is done in big vats similar to a cement mixer, each ingredient is screened and heat treated, to remove unwanted seed, bacteria etc, and the ph levels, feed levels are identical, or within certain tolorances. It has to be done like this as professional growers require uniformity, everything has to grow and look pretty much identical, if there was no uniformity, then a pro grower would go out of business very quickly, pro compost comes in boring bags, no pretty pictures, it can also be tailored to suit a certain crop, i.e 5% addition of clay for Cyclamen for example, at an additional cost.
    Mpc the ingredients are also bought through contract and shipped to the plant, but because of the quantities made and sold, they have to use more than 1 provider of certain ingredients, these ingredients are stored outside because of the quantities, using more than one supplier means there is a difference in quality, to give you an idea, a producer of mpc will use peat or peat substitutes, some form of loam, and rotted down green waste from waste companies and local authorities, the stuff from your green bins, not a problem, until you factor in, this green waste is not geing screened, because local authorities are missing recycle targets, so this stuff is being put through quicker, the same is true of the other ingredients, the quality is not geing tested chemically, or heat treated either, this costs money, which comes out of their profits. The mixing process is done with a big jcb type of machine, who also adds the feed with a bucket, and it is that looks about right, the mixed compost is then placed in a big hopper, it goes up a conveyor, and under an electro magnet, that is supposed to remove unwanted metal (which depends on how corroded it is, to ge picked up), then into a machine that bags it, rolls the bags into shape, then stacks them on pallets, wraps the pallets, then a big forklift puts them on the awaiting lorries 4 pallets a time. In mpc in the UK and Ireland this is the process, and profit drives the process, quality is not maintained, and joe public looks at the name, and the pretty pictures on the packaging, and have varying degrees of success, with the same products, if the profits are not as big in 2019, they will bye cheaper ingredients for 2020.
    This is why people have found bits of glass, nails, cat pooh, and even shredded disposable nappies in their compost. These processes are used in the John Innes product too, so it depends on the manufacturer who mixes it. Professional quality composts are becoming available to the general public, but you have to be careful, the uk tv shopping channels have cottoned on, and Mr Jacksons pro quality compost was a year or so ago a company called Bulrush compost with some of his branded feed, which I think he was selling 2 bags 60l delivered for £26, I sell the same compost I use to grow my plants in, but in 60l bags (usually 80l), to my customers, with a cheaper (crap compost) off the Somerset levels, I tell my customers, its ok to dig into a veg plot or garden border, some by it, because it 3 x 75l bags for £12, instead of £6.99 for a 60l bag of Bulrush, but hey its their garden, so it is becoming available.
    I will at a later datevwrite one of these about those seed supplier, the ones with those boards withbthe pretty points of sale and rows and rows of packets of seed, the ones I told to get lost, when I found out how they operate.
     
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    • Sheal

      Sheal Total Gardener

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      An interesting read, thank you Cuttings. :) I think many gardeners realise how shop bought compost is put together and what it contains. Unfortunately it's the non gardeners that mostly get caught. Those that have perhaps a couple of indoor plants that need re-potting, or buy the ridiculously early bedding plants that garden centres or diy stores sell to make their gardens look pretty. Which then die on planting out. These same people will buy a bag of general purpose compost thinking it's what they should use for their plants, unaware of what it contains and how it's been produced.
       
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      • JWK

        JWK Gardener Staff Member

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        • JWK

          JWK Gardener Staff Member

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          It would be good to find suppliers who sell to the general public.
           
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          • Mike Allen

            Mike Allen Total Gardener

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            I suspect the problem here is, cost and quantity.

            As I have mentioned before. Having over the years tried many brands from Levingtons, that was nothing more than bags of leaves to JA Bowers.(JAB) To date I have been more than satisfied with Bowers. Perhaps I'd call it a general multipurpose compost. I find it satisfactory for seed sowing etc, potting on/up, container growing and general garden use, mulching etc. The big problem is the varying prices.

            Thankfully using JAB, I haven't had unwanted materials in it. With the average gardener in mind, might I suggest loading your potting bench/are in the GH, say the day before you intend to use the compost, loosly break it down. Then when you come to use it, it would have dried out more and will be more manageable. Depending upon what use you are puting it to, various additives can be used, not forgetting a seive is handy if you want a seed compost.

            I was annoyed recently with the local Homebase. They had a clearance offer on. 60ltr bags reduced from 4.95 to 3.00 the 120 ltr bales usually bought by me at 7.95 I wanted 80 x 60ltr bags. Sorry. We don't deliver. OK, your loss.
             
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            • shiney

              shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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              Thanks for your professional opinion and information. It certainly helps our members look out for what may be a bad batch. It's good to open the bag and check the compost first and if it's no good then tell the store. In the big stores you can sometimes check out the texture and composition by looking at some bags that have split - there's usually some of them.

              It also depends for what purpose you need the compost. If, as we do, it is mainly for getting plants started, all we require of the compost is to be of reasonable quality, texture and water retention.

              We use about 4,000 - 6,000 litres each year and virtually all the plants are destined to be planted in people's gardens. To buy the professional compost (one of our local private nurseries sells it) would add about £400 to the cost, which means that amount less goes to the charity we support :noidea:. So it's a simple matter of cost to whether it is necessary calculation.

              If the general store bought compost is no good, as certainly happened two years ago, I make sure I get it replaced with proper compost and usually get extra compensation. This has only happened about five times in the last 50 years :old:.

              Our annual thread about compost quite often helps as members give their individual thoughts on what they have bought.

              Best Supplier Of Compost 2020

              Which? magazine do a good independent analysis of composts but it is usually one year out as they actually do growth tests in them. It is still a good guideline.

              Plants that are destined to stay in pots need a bit more care in choice of compost but also plant food and watering conditions are important.
               
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              • Cuttings

                Cuttings Super Gardener

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                This may be, but the quality of you plants will increase, your plants will be more uniform, better branching, more flowers and better colour, so in theory you could charge a little more, the fact you are buying a pallet you should be able to get a discount. There is a company called BHGS, they are based in Evesham, but have depots around the country, a pallet of 45 bages thats 3600 litres comes in at £305.10 delivered, that for Bulrush bedding, a finer mix for pots upto 1 litre, the container base for larger pots, is a bit cheaper. They also do other brands like Levingtons pro m3, which is a high nutrient compost. If you wish to use compost like J A Bowers etc, they sell that in pallets and single bags too, and you dont have to be trade to get discounted prices, you have whats called a 7 day account, or pro former which is order, pay, delivery, most compost you pay £5 a bag in the garden centres, will cost you approx £3.60 delivered. May be worth a look if you use that much compost. BHGS is open to the public and trade, their prices do change with demand, so you could order in winter to get the best prices.
                 
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                • shiney

                  shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                  Thanks.

                  My situation is slightly different as there is no way that I could have a pallet delivered. The compost that I use is over a period of time - as I'm potting up and repotting. I couldn't store that amount and could not move it because of my physical situation - too old to do much at a time! :old: :heehee:

                  The prices we charge are minimal compared to nurseries and everyone who buys from us are very happy to spend a lot of money for a lot of plants. That way we shift most of what we need to over our charity weekend. We shift over a thousand plants in a day. This is part of our display, with other nursery areas for replenishing them. There tends to be very little difference in how our plants look compared to the garden centres.

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