Brexit - am I stupid or what?

Well, it certainly looks like a suicide mission for May and the people negotiating with the EU who still want to create a "backstop" that divides Northern Ireland from the rest of the UK. The EU is stubbornly set on keeping the UK as a subservient "Colony" paying £39 plus Billion a year using the 310 miles of Irish Border as a anti Brexit Ditch which they wont allow to be crossed. They've done a very good job of saying "No" to every proposal in order to frustrate any attempt to reach a deal and encourage division among the Politicians of every colour, and the UK Public. So we have a Nationalist Government within the UK bent on Independence, the DUP holding the UK Government to ransom by threat of withdrawing their support. Labour which seems to have gone so far to the Left that even Putin wouldn't vote for them, the Liberal, (yes, I know......who???) party wanting a second referendum, the Conservatives split and wanting two completely different results.
All I know is that when I voted in the Referendum the question put was.............



So to, my mentally challenged Village Idiot brain, the basic question was "Do I want to leave the EU or do I want to stay?". There was no mention of under what conditions or deal did I want to leave?, and I can't imagine a Referendum that could even list questions that would do so without diluting the result into 5% for this deal, 15% for this other deal, 25% for another type of deal, etc. and that any Political party would agree to
So, I voted to leave the EU, plain and simple, whether we did a hard BREXIT or not. the referendum question was basic "do you want to leave or not." Since then the EU has thrown up every obstacle, barrier, threat, penalty they can think of into the path of a Sovereign County daring to want to be free of becoming entangled in a Federation of Europe run by Bureaucrats who aren't even voted into position. That has been aided and abetted by the Political Parties chasing their own narrow agendas, the divided public who, as history as shown, rarely back or support any Leader in a crisis and for which the EU is extremely grateful.
I'm a cynical soul, but not pessimistic, but at the moment whatever deal is brought before the Commons there is little chance of it getting through no matter how good it is. Those who voted to leave the EU are now facing that democratic decision being overturned with the opposition repeating their call for a second referendum which they've dumbed down to calling a "Peoples Vote" in the hope of the UK staying in the EU. Should that happen, and I'm not saying it will, the UK will be a lesser member than it is now, paying more into the Coffers and having even less political clout within the EU than it had/has now. A second referendum would also set a precedent for the SNP to demand a second Independence Referendum with a very short time with, possibly, Wales not far behind.........the EU would love that.

 

Oh, I am saying it will - the professionally offended are hell bent on having another referendum, call it Peoples Vote or anything else, it is another referendum. They are even intent on getting 16 year olds to vote to make sure that they can swing the vote in their favour. The sad thing is that there are a lot of people who are so confused about all this now, all they are seeing is the trouble that it has caused, and they just want it to stop - if they are asked to vote again, they are likely to vote to stay, not because that is what they want but simply because they want all of this nonsense to stop.

The British Brainwashing Corporation have also ramped up their efforts to tell us just how bad it all is (thank God whats-her-face got pregnant as that gives us a bit of respite from it!), and have not once tried to find any potential positives.

The car industry has even came out crying about shutting factories for a week after Brexit (BMW Mini being one)......... no, it is because an awful lot less people are buying your cars because the market is utterly confused following all the reactions to Dieselgate, the fact that they do not know what they can buy that is not likely to see them shafted for tax or depreciation, and the fact that many of them are looking at their outgoings and seeing hundreds of pounds a month going out of their banks and are wondering if it is all worth it.

The financial markets, the political stances, it is all the biggest load of bullshhhh..... I have ever seen.

 

Champion! Will I get a vote in that one this time?

Whilst we are at it, why don't we go for the full set - why not have a London Mayoral Election and a General Election, a Scottish Referendum, a Welsh Referendum and an EU Referendum all at the same time?

I didn't like the Tories getting into power at the last election, so I have a right to have my voice heard - after all, I voted in the last election in the belief that we were leaving the EU......

 

I agree with you, Longk, but what has to be taken into consideration is whether or not a second, third or fourth referendum is being used by a Government/organisation solely to get the answer they want. There was, I believe, a poll held when the SNP started rumbling about having a second independence referendum after they lost the first. They then went quiet when it was realised that the Scottish public were in no mood for such a thing.
So I think we have to realise that second referendums can be misused for political reasons rather than an actual public wanting it.

 

Well, that takes us off on a different tack, pete. All 4 countries have benefited from being in a United Kingdom. Three of those ridiculously small countries are bound together geographically on a ridiculously small island with a population of around 66 million people. Northern Ireland may be on a different piece of land but it's in the UK for many historical and political reasons and there's no ignoring of that fact.

I think you miss the point of the EU's exercise, pete. The DUP and the Government don't want a hard border for Northern Ireland but the EU is making it so that the only way to retain a soft border is for Northern Ireland to stay within the Custom Union thereby placing pressure on the UK Government, indefinitely, to stay in the Customs Union as well. That would, as the EU knows, would keep the UK having to stay in a lesser position within the EU, having to still pay the "Divorce Bill, and also having to keep to the EU's rules while not not having any say in the EU's policies. I think if it did come to a hard BREXIT the DUP might, while not liking it, accept a hard border if the UK also had hard borders. The EU couldn't really give a jot about Northern Ireland or it's people, but it's a very useful tool in order to frustrate BREXIT and try to defeat it.

 

That slips off the tongue too easily, pete. A lot of Politicians and good people have died trying to do just that, including a ancestor of mine who was a Minister for Ireland nearly a hundred years ago and was shot to death for his pains. Just saying it doesn't get it done, it takes agreement on both sides with both sides willing to agree fairly and with good intentions for each other...........that's not going to happen for a long, long while. To me all the "us first, and b££"&! the others" only serves the EU's agenda/.

 

Well, I live with at least one person who is quite confused by the whole thing, and sick of it in equal measure. I am not saying it applies to everyone, of course, but I am fairly sure that there will be quite a lot.

As for the supposed benefits being politicians lies - that is what politicians do, always, is lie! More often than not, the belief that things are going to be bad is all that it takes to make them bad - how often have you heard of the markets losing points because they have taken fright at such and such happening? These stockbrokers and financiers have it in their hands to make things better or worse as they see fit, and they often do - but always in their favour, and nobody elses. There has simply been no effort to make it a success, no effort to show the potential upsides alongside the potential downsides, because there is a considerable bias to the way that the information is being reported/disseminated.

We were asked a question, gave our answer and the elected crew did not like the answer they got.

Well, as I once said to a boss of mine - don't bother asking for my opinion or advice if you are only expecting me to answer with something that you want to hear, because it is not going to happen.

 

Not often that I disagree with you But, yes, we may "suffer" economically for a short period, I think that's inevitable, but I think it's a case of short term pain for long term gain. The UK has disagreed with the EU on many points and been penalised for it. The EU's much publicised agenda is to mutate into a Federation where countries disappear into regions not able to decide their own policies and being held to ransom from leaving by the threat of debt and ruin such as Greece and Italy.
There is a World out there with which we can develop free trade without restrictions as we used to before joining the EEC solely for trade purposes. The EEC changed into a political unelected organisation becoming the EU which had it's own currency making member countries currencies obsolete while also becoming a weapon to keep members under control and taking away their economic control of their countries. The UK didn't join in using the Euro and therefore retained it's ability, ,and independence, to decide it's own economic budget and policies. If we hadn't retained the Sterling we would never even been able to hold a referendum to leave the EU, as they would have stamped on us as they did Greece and Italy while other countries thinking of leaving looked on. We can, and will, continue trading with the EU as the trade between us is money driven and the global/international would/will not tolerate any political barriers to thin their profits.