Brexit - am I stupid or what?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by PeterS, Dec 16, 2017.

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  1. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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    Easy, Harry the EU doesn't want to make any thing easy for the UK to leave the EU and one of the ways to do that is to place obstacles in the way of a solution to the Irish borders as it will make other "loyal" members think about leaving the EU.
    Borders are artificial and a state of mind and that can be taken advantage of by Politicians and the EU with agendas of their own.
    Don't forget that the EU also wants to "discourage" other EU members like Greece, Portugal, Italy, and Spain from even thinking about leaving the EU, so they will place every obstacle, wall, pit, and mountain of bureaucracy that they can.:dunno::doh:
     
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    • pete

      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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      I dont think at the moment the EU has to put any obstacles in the way of us leaving the EU, parliament and the House of Lords are doing a pretty good job on their own.
       
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      • ARMANDII

        ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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        Which makes you question what those peoples real agendas and financial interests are, I guess.:scratch::snorky:
         
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        • pete

          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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          May should boot out all remainers in the cabinet,IMO
          Then we would at least perhaps get a single strategy from the government.

          Trouble is, May is a remainer also.
           
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          • Ned

            Ned Evaporated

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            I only ever saw her as a half hearted remainer. She is trying to do a good job - pity she doesn`t get a bit more backing.
             
          • pete

            pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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            The backing exists, you just have to ask, why is she not using it?
             
          • ARMANDII

            ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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            Well, if she is, Pete, she's doing a good job of doing the opposite.:dunno::thumbsup::snorky: She must have the loneliest job in the UK with everyone around her either bodging their own jobs or doing her down.:doh:
             
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            • pete

              pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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              Do you actually think she is doing a good job, at first I thought she might, but now I'm not so sure.
              I tend to think she is the wolf in sheep's clothing. Or the sheep in wolf's clothing.

              For a start she need to kick the cabinet into shape, anyone not behind leaving should be dumped or at the very least, should not have been there in the first place.

              How can she expect to run things when she surrounds herself with people with different agendas.
               
            • ARMANDII

              ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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              To be honest, pete, I don't think anyone could do a good job of handling Brexit:dunno: Whoever does it is facing the EU who, despite what they say, will play hard ball to show other "reluctant" EU member countries who might want to leave that they will be given an even harder time.
              So any person handling the Brexit situation will have blocks, delays, undermining of their authority and ideas, underhand political tricks, from the EU, opposing UK political parties, the Media, and Uncle Tom Coble and all.
              Mrs May is what we have got and that being so I believe that she needs every bit of backing and support that can be given her. But that also applies to anyone, if not Mrs May, who might be Prime Minister and is genuinely trying to lead us out of the EU.
              We very rarely get any positive comments or news regarding Brexit or the people handling it, it's nearly all negative, and deliberately so, trying to convince the Man/Woman in the Street that we will be "up the Creek without a Paddle", will be unable to survive without the EU, should have another Referendum so we can change our minds. It's there every day, drip by drip, doom and gloom, trying to install fear and doubt into the minds of us all and, to a certain extent, it's working.:doh: We doubt Mrs May, we doubt all of the Ministers who are handling BREXIT, we doubt the result of the Referendum, we listen to the Doomsayers, and seem to think that the EU is more authoritative than the UK Government, so we, the public, don't help ourselves.:wallbanging:

              We joined the EU in 1973, we suffered a financial global crisis in 1973 to 1975, again in 1978 to around 1983, again in 1990 to around 1993, and the worst one in 2008. We suffered as much in the EU as if we had not been in the EU. My point being that the EU has not, despite our membership, protected us from crisis, or improved our manufacturing growth or placed us in the top 3 of the countries who have most benefited from their membership.
               
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              • Ned

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                • pete

                  pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                  Right OK I believe that bit, but just wonder.
                  If the Conservative party, headed by May, is really behind leaving the EU why dont we actually get more positive propaganda?
                  Why only negative propaganda?

                  I just dont think the government is for leaving the EU, they make the right noises now and then, but they are not totally committed.
                  The longer it goes on the more I become convinced they are just playing the part, and the final outcome will be, we have left, but still under the control of the EU.
                  In a couple of years we will be begging them to take us back, as the Deal will be so bad for the UK, not OUT but not IN either.
                  We will end up paying them billions but not be a member.
                  And it will be down to the remainers within, weakening our negotiating hand.
                   
                • ARMANDII

                  ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                  And that, Pete, is exactly what I was talking about. The negative propaganda is working!! We tend to believe the negative than the positive and all you have done is express your doubt and disbelief in the people handling BREXIT, the people handling it, and the result. :wallbanging:

                  If you start a battle believing you're going to lose then the odds are you will.......everything you said will bring a grin to the faces of the EU, the people, companies, whose own financial agendas lie with themselves and not BREXIT. Anyone working on a project, no matter what, wants support, belief, and people to back them, I know I would. We can't criticise Mrs May, the Government if we're not prepared to support them and back them.
                   
                • pete

                  pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                  Fighting amongst themselves is getting us nowhere.
                  As I said earlier, the EU dont actually have to get involved.

                  The in- fighting that is taking place is what is is bringing a grin to the faces of the EU.
                  They are playing into the hands of the EU and tearing the country apart.

                  The referendum settled nothing, as the modern thing seems to be to disregard the outcome of a vote if you dont like the outcome.;)
                   
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                  • shiney

                    shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                    I ignore anything I don't like - or do it myself - or take them to court :lunapic 130165696578242 5:

                    Vote Independence For Shineyland :paladin:
                     
                  • longk

                    longk Total Gardener

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                    A cabinet has to be comprised of the most capable people for their individual roles, not of people who agree on a single issue. This government is hamstrung not because they have different views on Brexit but because of the Machiavellian maneuvering by senior cabinet members in their own best interests as opposed to the best interests of the country. Whilst this happens in all governments to some extent or another it is the Brexit issue (from the second that the referendum was announced) that has seen this behaviour become the underlying theme of the Conservative government, Mays in particular.
                    It's a conundrum as a cabinet that was 100% behind May would almost certainly be 100% against Brexit.

                    Fairs fair - when we joined the EU in 1973 we were screwed. As a nation we had had to ask for a bail out and we were the poor man of Europe. By joining the Common Market it helped the financial markets retain a little more faith in the UK resulting in less damage in the ensuing financial crisis than we could have reasonably expected outside of the Common Market. I think that too many people whose biggest issue with the EU was the erosion of the UKs' soveriegnty fail or refuse to acknowledge the enormous financial benefit to us of our EU membership. As the "empire" shrank so did our fortunes - the Common Market/EU was an empire of co-operation as opposed to an empire of conquest and revived our fortunes. Personally, as a republican, I believe that the economy trumps tradition every time and the erosion of soveriegnty is a price worth paying, especially in the much smaller world that we live in today.

                    It it is well known on this forum that I was a firm remainer but the vote has happened and it is time to get on with it. Hopefully theeconomic fortunes of this country will be similar to those of Portugal and it is time to start preparing for the new reality.

                    All the above is in the spirit of hearty debate.
                     
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