Brexit -am I stupid or what

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by wiseowl, Dec 10, 2018.

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  1. Fat Controller

    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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    To be honest @Freddy, I am probably as guilty as anyone, mostly borne out of strong feelings about the entire subject, and sadly I think that is at the root of a lot of things around Brexit (and I am talking about nationally and even internationally) - strong feelings on both sides have understandably spilled out in various discussions, and many people have felt aggrieved at the other "side's" stance.
    In fairness to every single person that has taken part in this thread, whilst there have been differing opinions and disagreements, it has not descended into the complete savagery that I have actually seen elsewhere. I would also like to think, and hope, that beside all of this you know that it is all just politics and there is absolutely no ill feelings person to person. I am nigh on certain that anyone on this thread would do anything for any of the others if they were in need, without a second thought about political discussions past - - for sure, you'd get the shirt of my back if you needed it, and I wouldn't hesitate to do the same for anyone else here.

    Try not to lose heart (not easy, I know), as we simply do not know what is around the next corner.
     
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    • shiney

      shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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      You'd need to get drunk if I start singing. :sad:
       
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      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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        I agree - in my opinion, both ex-pats and EU citizens living here have been let down badly by the political classes on this subject. Whilst I understand that there are a lot of complexities to it, the principles of the first part of the proceedings should have been fairly simple - ex-pats should not see their situation change, and any accrued healthcare costs, pension etc would be paid for by the UK (even if by invoice) and likewise any EU citizens already here should be afforded exactly the same as they have now, regardless as to how the deal (or no deal) plays out.
         
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        • Mike Allen

          Mike Allen Total Gardener

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          Excellent post IMO. Thank you.
           
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          • Mike Allen

            Mike Allen Total Gardener

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            Many thanks for this information.
             
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            • noisette47

              noisette47 Total Gardener

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              Noooo..can't do that! That song always makes me cry. I'll give the 'getting drunk' bit a shot, if you insist.....:roflol:
               
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              • noisette47

                noisette47 Total Gardener

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                As I understand the sequence of events, FC, the pressure groups representing Brits in the EU repeatedly asked the UK government to 'ringfence' the negotiated ex-pats' rights but they refused to do so. Meanwhile, many EU countries were busy passing individual legislation to define and stabilise the situation of same. Even now, pensioners only have a vague guarantee of continuity for two years with a deal, or one year in the event of a hard Brexit. If and when it happens, then bi-lateral agreements will have to be re-negotiated with the individual EU countries. You can see why there are a lot of unhappy, nervous Brits over here! Especially the ones who simply wouldn't be able to afford to buy or rent in Britain, don't have family there, etc..
                Still, nemind eh? Just collateral damage. Well worth the price to make Britain Great again, solve immigration at one fell swoop, solve all the NHS's problems, sort the economy.....errr....that is what it's all about, isn't it? :scratch:
                 
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                • Fat Controller

                  Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                  The flipside of no collateral damage is the collateral damage that has been done to Britain over a number of years and decades - indeed, you hit the nail right on the head by saying that you could not afford to buy or rent here, because that has become the case for just about everyone here. I am 43 now, and have absolutely no chance of ever getting a mortgage and am to a large degree 'locked' into living where I do as to move elsewhere would either see my rent rise, or if I moved to an area with lower rent my commuting costs would soar. Essentially, we are collateral damage of the vast and huge immigration that Britain has seen, and a lot of that is because Mrs Merkel opened Europe's back door and let just about anyone in whilst having our bank balance drained to support a number of other countries.

                  However, as I said earlier, I agree that the whole thing has been handled very badly indeed, and the best option in my book would have been for the starting point to be absolutely clear that we are leaving the EU, we want to do a trade deal, we don't want to be unreasonable about things but we also won't take any nonsense in terms of forced political alignment etc. Had Theresa May and her crew really, honestly, set out to do what they said they were going to do we could have been pretty much sorted by now and it could all have been done by signing a number of agreements one at a time - start with the human factors, and both 'sides' guarantee that no matter what the outcome people will be looked after or see no reduction in their services/rights and worst case the home country will pay upon invoice for all costs incurred. Then, and only then, move onto the next stage.

                  We have all been badly let down by politicians all over, and if nothing else Brexit has crystallised just how bad our political and elite classes really are. I sincerely hope that we get a LOT of new blood in from the pending elections, but I fear we have a very, very long road still to go to get the reform that is truly needed.
                   
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                  • Jiffy

                    Jiffy The Match is on Fire

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                    I don't sing, but the last few nights I've been howling, will that do, I don't get drunk (tea total) but I love a full moon
                     
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                    • shiney

                      shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                      Not many of us around! :rolleyespink:
                       
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                      • Fat Controller

                        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                        It's OK, I will try and do my bit to make up for the drinks you are not having - doing my bit to stabilise the drinks industry you understand.... :biggrin:
                         
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                        • shiney

                          shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                          I applaud your conscientiousness and dedication. :love30: I hope it doesn't put too much stress on you.
                           
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                          • clanless

                            clanless Total Gardener

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                            Just to add some balance to the discussions:

                            jezza.jpg
                             
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                            • shiney

                              shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                              Can I have two if I vote for him twice? :ideaIPB:
                               
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                              • ARMANDII

                                ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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