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E10 Petrol and cars made before 2011

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by JWK, Jun 26, 2021.

  1. Fat Controller

    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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    @Black Dog - I have a four year old car that I serviced myself only recently; my neighbour has no less than six vehicles attached to his home, all of which he services himself, so home servicing most certainly isn't dead yet. I have the correct code reader for my make of vehicle which allows me to do the vast majority of things on the car - what I cannot do is any software updates that the manufacturer rolls out. Whilst it is not unique to EV's, the situation is going to be significantly amplified with EV's because they are heavily reliant on their software not only to make the car go and stop but also for the setup of things like regenerative braking. If the dealers make their software available to the smaller independent garages at a reasonable cost, then there won't be any issue - but, there is currently no impetus for them to do so - they can charge whatever they like and it is this that will put nails into the coffins of already struggling small garages. I have a friend who has ran a very successful garage for decades with his father doing do before him and he is wrapping up at the end of this year as the costs of keeping up with all the software and special tools is so significant.
     
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    • Black Dog

      Black Dog Gardener of useful things

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      Sorry to hear that @Fat Controller
      Here in Germany it is obligatory for manufacturers to make the tools and servicing manuals available for every garage, no matter what kind of vehicles they service. And if they follow the servicing instructions, they count as "professionally serviced".
      Makes a big difference as the "free garages" are usually a lot cheaper than their official counterparts.
      But the expensive ones still survive because they live off people's laziness and fear of choosing another garage.
       
    • Fat Controller

      Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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      It is the same here at the moment - they make the tools available, but the cost of them is horrendous. When you have to have different units to service Ford, Vauxhall, VW and so on that cost really piles up on a small business.
      You are spot on that laziness and fear are also significant factors in where and how people service their cars; some people will be horrified that I have serviced a four year old car myself, but I have replaced more than the dealer would have done at the age/mileage and that will continue as long as I have the car. I have the peace of mind that it has been done right.
       
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      • JR

        JR Chilled Gardener

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        I've never paid a garage for a service on any vehicle in over 45 years of driving.
        I like to know exactly what oils and fluids are used.
        I've always changed Brake discs and pads, track rod ends etc myself too (Haynes manuals)
        However, I do need the garage with any dashboard EML's that pop up, or anything that needs electronic diagnosis. I've never progressed as far as my own fault code reader.
        Whilst on the subject, my car has thrown up a tyre pressure warning light rear offside.
        The pressure is correct, so any advise on that would be gratefully received!
         
      • JWK

        JWK Gardener Staff Member

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        There should be a reset procedure, on mine it involves selecting TPMS reset via the dashboard menu "MyCar" system, I have to do this whilst stationary. Then drive for a few minutes whilst it re-calibrates.
         
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        • JR

          JR Chilled Gardener

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          Thanks for that, I'll check it out.
          I'll be delighted if i can reset it rather than needing a new tpms sensor.. Fingers crossed!
           
        • JWK

          JWK Gardener Staff Member

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          My previous car was a Mini and the handbook was very clear about the TPMS reset procedure. Now we have a Volvo and the handbook doesn't mention it. I googled the car make and model and "tyre pressure monitor reset" and found a helpful step by step guide on a Volvo forum.
           
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          • pete

            pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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            I suppose my car is a bit out of date now, but it uses the ABS in order to give you a tyre pressure warning.
            It never says which tyre is the problem one but that is usually obvious when you look at them.
            The reset is simple, even I can do it

            But as things become more sophisticated more problems seem to occur.
             
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            • Sandy Ground

              Sandy Ground Total Gardener

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              Good post there @Fat Controller but....

              After a bit of research, I can say that we have had E10 here since 2007. "Sandys Sources" tell me that its also been sold from UK petrol pumps since mid 2011. In regards to E10 damaging petrol pipes. My Stihl Brush Cutter, now over 30 years old, has its pipe immersed in the stuff. Its still the original one. As are the ones that are used in my 25 year old Honda F510 tiller, and my 22 year old lawn mower. Therefore, I suspect that is nothing more than an internet myth.

              In regards to petrol going off. Its commonly written on internet that this happens, but being honest, agian from my own experience, it doesnt. At the end of the season, I regularly have petrol remaining in a jerry can. This is in case its needed for the snow blower when we have a bad winter. If its not used, then it get put in one of the machines at the strt of the gardening season, and used. Again, I suspect this to be yet another internet myth. In this case, possibly due to people not being able to maintain their machinery properly, or perhaps even managing to get dirt or water into the fuel tank when refuelling. Its easier to blame the fuel, rather than ones own incompetence.

              Another thing about this. For Two Strokes its possible to buy Aspen 2. Here its a 50:1 premix. How long as that been standing on the shelf with the seller? They're not likely to throw it away due to the Best Before date having expired. Remember here though that Mineral based two stroke il should never be used with E10. Only Synthetic, and a name brand at that.

              The octane change thing. Go to a petrol station where 98 octane fuel is available, buy some, and what you get is E5. Add enough ethanol to make it E10, and guess what? You have 95 octane. In other words, in this example only, it lowers octane ratings. Continue adding ethanol though, until the fuel becomes E85, and the opposite happens. The effective octane can get close to 130! You will however need to use 30-35% more E85 to get the same power as with E10. Unless the engine is modified to suit. Do that though and more fuel is used anyway.


              Modern cars are in reality a lot easier to maintain than those of old. Electronics are simply remove and replace if the go wrong. Assuming that someone is capable of doing bit of fault finding that is. On the Dodge that I used to have, fault finding was done simply by plugging in the OBD, and it told what needed replacing. No doubt its similar with other cars.

              The thing I do agree with however is that many are not capable of stripping and rebuilding engines, transmissions and othe mechanical components. @Fat Controller knows who I am referring to here, but this person took a 3 speed auto transmission dating from the 1960's, rebuilt it into a 6 speed with "Tiptronic" type operation. That is, either fully auto or manual, and in this case the possibility of doing a 1-3-5 or 2-4-6 auto change.
               
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              • JR

                JR Chilled Gardener

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                @Sandy Ground.. Granted older cars would generally give more trouble than modern ones, but for the average home mechanic they were much easier to fix.
                Ok, so you can buy your own OBD reader but firstly that needs to be a high end one.
                And then how many times does it flash up 3 different fault codes. You proceed to fix those items and the car still shows problems.
                I'm an old git who's got no confidence in electronic fault finding with modern motors.
                These days I'll tackle the mechanical bits like always, and then run the car to a good garage when warning lights start showing up :noidea:
                 
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                • Sandy Ground

                  Sandy Ground Total Gardener

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                  Good OBD's are not expensive nowadays, and they save money the first time they are used. As far as showing incorrect faults go, so far mine has not managed to do that.

                  Edit: I'm a tight fisted old git, and mney is better in my pocket than in the one of a garage owner... Electronics are nothing more than a simple challenge that can be overcome.
                   
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                  • JWK

                    JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                    I think it depends on the car manufacturer if their OBDs are accurate and reliable. I made the mistake of buying a French car once, it developed an imaginary fault where the engine management system thought the engine was about to destroy itself, so it turned itself off. This would usually happen in the middle of busy roundabout leaving me stranded in a dangerous position. It did not even have a hobble mode so I could pull over to the side.
                    It was in and out the garage whilst they randomly swapped black boxes as indicated by their reader, some units cost several hundred quid plus labour. This was all under warranty so I was not out of pocket but they never sorted it out.
                     
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                    • Fat Controller

                      Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                      One of the most honest things I have ever seen was an enthusiast with a boot load of tools and each toolbox was emblazoned with the slogan "Because... Citroen" - - sums up my experience with them perfectly. Having said that, if I had the money I would love to get a hydro-Citroen as a bit of a modern classic (not to rely on daily) - Xantia or XM maybe, as there is no ride like it.

                      In fairness, I have a relative that had a Honda Accord (2004 model from memory) that had an engine management light on from 18 months old that Honda never could fix; it was still on when he traded it in some years ago, just as the MOT rules were changing that would make that a fail.
                       
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                      • Fat Controller

                        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                        Actually, thinking about it - my own car... the stop/start system has ceased to function. I have serviced it, told it that it has been serviced too and I have changed the battery but still no stop/start. No OBD codes, no codes on the manufacturer specific reader, car drives absolutely fine. Nothing seems to want to make the stop/start work again.
                         
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                        • JR

                          JR Chilled Gardener

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                          My stop start only operates with a fully charged battery so it rarely kicks in during winter for instance.. I wonder if your alternator is putting out the max charge.. Then again that would no doubt put a warning light up..
                          During summer it'll only operate on long runs.
                          (I'm sure you've considered this already)
                          TBH i find this particular feature annoying and i often press the override button ;)
                           
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                            Last edited: Jul 16, 2021
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