Latest Moan From You and Me 2025

Grammar school ex-pupil here too. I chose German instead of Latin and have used it occasionally. I gave up Physics and Chemistry to do Music, which I used extensively during my career. I would say most of the stuff I did has been useful in one way or another, not necessarily for the specific content (drumlins and oxbow lakes anyone? ), but in terms of being a basis for understanding the world. So History lessons on life for Medieval peasants is relevant today in that wealth distribution hasn't changed a lot.

I'm not sure A-levels added a lot - same stuff, slightly more depth - so that might be where useful stuff like managing bank accounts or understanding mortgages and interest rates could be included.

 

I was slightly taken aback when a friend of my daughters who is doing a phd in something to do with chemical engineering and based at Pfizers didn’t know what APR was. I had to explain that borrowing money which is what you are effectively doing with a credit card is not that different to borrowing ( renting) a property. She was totally clueless about how credit cards work or mortgages. No wonder university students get themselves into serious debt if this person is the norm rather than exception!
After a lesson in how banks etc make their money from lending to us at a cost! and to always try to pay off a credit card in full each month, she understood how to manage her finances a bit better, or I hope she did.

 

I never got to cse or gce level, I left school at 15, much to my technical drawing teachers dismay, he even had a one to one with me to try and get me to stay on, but I was just fed up with school so ended up taking an apprenticeship and spent 2 years being totally bored out of my mind getting all the really menial stuff to do, but it was good training in a way as it taught me that if you don't do something nobody else is going to do it for you.
I always found that a good basis to a decent work ethic.

 

I'm not really familiar with the French education system as Possum was schooled in Belgium but they do seem to have options from pre-school up to 18 yr olds and then all sorts of colleges, universities, apprenticeships and day release systems.

I think the UK system needs an overhaul with an emphasis on providing better school buildings and facilities - books, labs, art and creativity, academic and technical options plus decent pay to attract better teachers and have better outcomes and happier children at all levels.

"In Finland, charging fees for tuition is illega!, which means rich kids have to mix with normal kids, which means rich families had to make sure the school their kid went to was good which meant the rich were prompted to invest in public schools, Finland, take a bow."

 

I left school at 15, I couldn't wait to leave, found myself a job, driving
licence then a Car. This was my goal. Later a PSV Licence to drive buses.

 

My career was in Criminal and Personal Injury Law in America and Human Resources in the UK based on the fact I took shorthand and typing. I can do maths without a calculator I left school at 15 (in Luton). It is how you apply yourself. I would not want to go to school in this day and age.

 

Another ex grammar school pupil here. Many of the subjects I took were actually "educational" and of use in later life but certainly not all of them.
One improvement in the UK education world, to my mind at least, was the introduction of Comprehensive schools as opposed to the Grammar and Secondary system. May as well have called them 1st class and 2nd class.
Could be said that we have now moved on to such an extent whereby attending University is considered vital. When you think of some of the degree courses on offer, you begin to wonder what's going on. Many are leaving university up to their eyeballs in debt and with little to show for it in the way of career opportunities.

 

I think too many go to university these days either pushed into it by the school system or just going for the "experience".
Or even to avoid actually getting a job.

We still have grammar schools here and I have no problem with it, if you are that way inclined then all well and good IMO.
In my day they even had technical schools that were considered more hands on than grammars which were mostly academic.

It was never something for me and I'm glad I flunked the 11plus test.

The secondary school I went to was a good one and taught good basic stuff that you needed to get a job.

The main problem in my opinion is somewhere along the line they let university take over from technical colleges and higher education, skills shortage or what.
If you don't teach skills anymore you cant be surprised.

 

The main problem for me is having to pay high fees to go to university and then not being guaranteed tutors and lecturers who are present, let alone competent. I had my fees paid and received a means tested grant towards living costs.

Possum's fees in Belgium were between 600 and 1000€ a year plus support. I know people from the UK sent their kids to Belgium to study as most technical and medical courses in Flanders are in English anyway and, before Brexit, it meant they paid local fees not British and got a very good qualification.

In Denmark it's free and students get paid to go. Sweden and Finland also offer free university studies to nationals as well as citizens of the EU, EAA and Switzerland.

I also think practical education to improve standards and innovation in building, farming, landscaping and gardening, transport, the care industry and so on should be funded and regulated.

 

Grammar school kid too. Did French to O level, but our teacher was Irish. I can’t understand, or speak with, a French accent, so it hasn’t been of much use, although I can at least read it!
Did 1st year of A level maths, but the best education I had in that was working in the local bakery shop on Saturdays. I can still check my change almost just by looking at it. Had to tot up the customers bill either in my head, or on the back of a paper bag, no fancy tills in those days. Those in the science stream had to do Latin, the others used to do Domestic Science. They would have an exhibition every Christmas of the cakes they had made and decorated. Some of them were truly amazing, I was always very envious.

 

Practical - whether it be basic education, the ability to feed yourself and manage your own finances or earning a living - isn't a popular concept.
I do admire those who can cope with the Techy stuff - even the average 10 yr old knows more about it than I do but I'm usually more likely to be seeking a good builder, electrician or plumber.
That's the way the world is heading tho like it or not.

 

It was mandatory for us to do Cooking and Sewing ... didn't get me a job, but I could, and did, make my own clothes in the 60s and was a damn good cook. I survived on my own for four years in a foreign country aged 16 to 20. Proud of it.

 

@Philippa I went to an all girls grammar school in Manchester where everyone did sewing/cookery as well as Latin, science, history, geography, French, Maths, English and music for the first 2 years. Don't know what happened after that as we moved to Cheshire and a mixed grammar school where anyone bright enough to do Latin or German dropped domestic sciences for girls and wood and metalwork for boys. I would have loved wood and metal work.

Techy for me did not mean IT in any shape or form tho I do remember one maths teacher trying to teach us binary language with a set of light bulbs - on was 1 and off was 0. That was the late 60s and who knew where that would lead?

Taught myself to cook, sew, do DIY because I like good food and am not shop shaped and I like natural fabrics and clothes that fit and am not interested in "labels".

 

In the 3rd year at our Grammar school we had to decide which subjects we would take for 'O' Level GCE. However, we were restricted to doing 'Sciences' or 'The Arts'. Maths, English Language, English Literature and a foreign language were mandatory too. My main interests were in science but I had absolutely no interest in Chemistry or English Lit so potentially missed out on taking exams in subjects which did interest me. It was terribly restrictive. I knew people who had been good at a couple of sciences and loved music, but had to choose one stream or the other. This was in the mid 1960s.

 

@Philippa In theory a single education system where pupils are streamed on their ability in each individual subject sounds great, but then again communism sounds great but isn't so wonderful in practice. Many schools seem to be more interested in mid-range than in challenging even the brightest to do better. Mixed ability classes will inevitably prevent the best from excelling.
One major problem when I took the 11+ was that I went to a 'county' school, not one in the city. That meant that irrespective of results only 2 boys and 2 girls could go to Grammar school as that was a 'city' school. My best mate was 3rd of the boys and went to a Secondary Modern school for 5 years. He did manage to get the necessary exam results to join my school for the 6th form.