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My car is bust

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by clueless1, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. Fat Controller

    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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    £22.74 each if you aren't overly bothered by a brand name.

    Euro are pretty decent to deal with too - never had a problem with them.

    The trouble with these newer coil packs is that they live that much closer to the block, and as a result get so much hotter; one other thing well worth checking before you do anything is the Low Voltage wires running from the ECU to each coil pack - the heat often gets to them and they go brittle - they either break down internally, or the outer sheath splits open and they short out.

    You can sometimes see the shorting taking place if you run the engine with any covers off, in the dark - - you will see wee blue sparks jumping from any knackered wires.
     
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    • clueless1

      clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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      I found the coil pack thingies you refer to. There were little low voltage wires going to each. I unplugged these low voltage wires one at a time and started the engine. My logic being that if one was consistently failing so the engine was consistently firing on 3 cylinders, then undoing one (the failed one) would make no difference, whereas the other 3 would make a noticeable difference (taking it down to just 2 cylinders firing). Unfortunately each one in turn made a difference when I tried it, indicating that all four are firing, even if not as regularly as strongly as they should.

      What I did notice though was that as I disconnected each one, a load of dust came out the connector, and since reconnecting them there was some small but noticeable improvement, so to me that does indicate weak ignition.
       
    • clueless1

      clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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      Which I guess would cause the courtesy light to flicker in time to that cylinder firing?

      I did notice exactly that today while I was pretending to know what I was doing as I tried to fix it.
       
    • Fat Controller

      Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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      It could do, as the available current was being drawn away from the light to try and run the engine.

      Do the basic checks first:

      - Check the battery terminals are secure and clean.
      - Check that the alternator is charging (no charge light on)
      - If you are handy with, and have a meter, it might be worth checking to see if the alternator is putting out 12-14 volts (rule out a knackered voltage regulator - unlikely to be the problem, but you never know)
      - Check the spark plugs are clean and correctly gapped (worth a tenner to change them anyway, just to be sure)
      - Check/swap fuel filter (again, for the few quid involved, best done as a precaution)
      - Check condition of engine/gearbox earth strap (braided wire between engine block or gearbox bell-housing and the body; Vauxhall's used to be guilty for fraying these in the middle, which eventually led to them not being man enough to carry the voltages back to earth/battery)
      - Check condition of all low voltage wires leading to coil packs, in particular how brittle the wires are and the condition of the outer sheaths; give these a wiggle with the engine running and see if it changes anything
      - Check the plugs at either end of the LV wires to the coil packs - any corrosion however small can impair them; if you find one furred up, clean it by using a flat bladed screw driver and a wee bit of wet and dry.- Check/swap ignition coils as mentioned above (bear in mind, its not impossible for more than one to have bitten the dust)

      Failing that, you are into seeking some more professional help.

      Fingers crossed for you mate.
       
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      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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        Ooooh - one final one I almost forgot - - a duff MAF sensor can make them run like bag of old spanners, although that usually shows its head as a hesitancy, lack of power or even bogging down when pulling away.

        To rule it out is fairly easy - find it (usually on the air intake pipe just after the air filter), with the engine off remove the electrical plug to it; start the engine. If it starts and runs fine, your MAF is to blame. They are usually about £50 tops, and a piece of cake to fit.
         
      • Jack McHammocklashing

        Jack McHammocklashing Sludgemariner

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        Haynes manuals :lunapic 130165696578242 5:
        I bought them years ago, and you could actually repair your car using them, in a nice sealed cover and grease proof pages

        I bought one recently for the new car and OMG
        It is pringed on Blotting Paper, so the type is unreadable, then the photos,are obviously taken on a Kodak Brownie, converted to jpg and printed on said blotting paper
        Biggest waste of £13 I have ever done

        Jack McH
         
      • Marley Farley

        Marley Farley Affable Admin! Staff Member

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        My friend still has one of the Volvo tanks.. E reg & had it since new & it looks the same & sounds the same, the engine is still superb..!!
        Not my favourite car, but I know people who will have nothing else.. I used to have a Renault, engine good, body terrible.. I like Saabs very like Volvos in a lot of ways.... :biggrin:
         
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        • nFrost

          nFrost Head Gardener

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          Agreed, the coil pack on our 05 Scenic went the day our son was born so ended up paying £140 to get all four replaced on the day (battery died the day after!). Didn't have time to fanny around. Does the car rock/judder when idling? Struggle to get up to/over 40 mph? Could be a sign.
           
        • Loofah

          Loofah Admin Staff Member

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          Bite the bullet and ditch the laguna. Admit it - you were never happy with it lol

          Mmmm, Volvo...
           
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          • Fat Controller

            Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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            I missed this post last night, sorry - disconnecting the low voltage connectors one by one may not necessarily prove the fault; the low voltage supply is likely to have a common return (-ve) that may well pass through all four connectors; so, it is entirely feasible that disconnecting the connector on cylinder one would also upset the three others as the common return circuit is open; they may well still fire under this circumstance, but not as strongly because the earth is instead going through the plug and the cylinder block in turn, and not via the low voltage path that it should.

            Don't forget, one a modern car, the ECU is always going to try and be one step ahead when it comes to the the timing of firing, and it will try to compensate when there is an issue. I am surprised that its not put the yellow engine management light on to be honest.
             
          • Fat Controller

            Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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            Bear in mind that Volvo (cars) are not what they once were either - they were bought out by Ford in 1999, and they in turn sold it to China's Geely group in 2010, so they are Volvo in badge only. Volvo trucks, buses and heavy machinery remained under the ownership of Volvo (and somewhat perversely, Volvo manufacture Renault trucks!)

            I've just had another think about this clueless1 - there are a few different types of COP coils, and no easy way of testing them that I know of without replacing one at a time with a known good one, or replacing all four.

            Renault fitted Sagem coils in the factory, so it might be worth looking at the brands on the coils - if you have three Beru coils and one Sagem, chances are the Sagem is the oldest and the most likely to have broken down. There is another brand beginning with an R, but I can't remember the name properly, sorry - maybe Renu or similar?

            One alternative, is to take each coil pack its spark plug in turn - DON'T do this with the engine running! - leave the coil connected to the wiring loom, and rest the coil pack on something (preferably rubber) as far away from the engine as you can (the important bit is to prevent a spark jumping from the end of the coil to the engine) and then start the engine - if it runs worse, then switch off, replace the coil and move on to the next one. If there is no change, then there is a better than average chance that you have found your culprit.

            If you get to the end of this process, your next move really has to be whipping the plugs out and checking the colour - if one is different to all the rest, it may indicate that the coil on this cylinder is breaking down. However, plugs can tell you an awful lot about your engine so it might point to something different depending on the colour.

            Also don't rule out that one of the plugs themselves may be breaking down, even if relatively new; indeed, if they have been replaced fairly recently, they could be the wrong heat range or even transit damaged. If in doubt, swap them all.
             
          • clueless1

            clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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            Thanks for all the useful tips fat controller, but the car failed quite miserably in its MOT, so I think I'm going to scrap it. Here's the list of failure reasons, which doesn't even include the replacement of 'coil pack #4' which the mechanic tells me is the duff one.

            1. Exhaust emissions lambda reading after 2nd fast idle outside of specified limits.
            2. Nearside front anti-roll bar linkage ball joint dust cover excessively bust
            3. Nearside front CV joint gater split
            4. Nearside rear tyre worn
            5. Offside rear wheel bearing worn
            6 & 7 both front tyres worn

            Advisory:

            8. Exhaust leaking

            I can't really count the tyres in my reason for binning it because of course they are consumables, but the rest of it is enough to make me want rid. On top of that there's the ignition fault to repair, and on top of all that, there could be any number of other as yet unidentified faults causing the emissions to be out, so I might fork out over £500 (probably more than the car is worth) only to find it still fails on emissions. Not worth it on a car I never really liked anyway.
             
          • Fat Controller

            Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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            Ouch! I feel for you mate - never nice when the budget gets an unexpected wallop.

            1. Exhaust emissions could be related to the rough running and the failed coil, however could easily be a hell of a lot more as you have realised (start at MAF sensor, graduate to EGR and on from there)

            2. Not sure if the dust covers are available separately, but I doubt it very much - almost certainly be into a new ball joint, and whatever else decides to seize or break in the process of replacing; although its not necessary, I would always replace ball joints in pairs.

            3. Not a massive job, especially as kits are available to replace the gaiter without removing the CV joint.

            4, 6 & 7 - as you have three worn, you are really looking at four new tyres to be safe, and shoes for cars are getting dearer all the time. If you could do the four for less than £300 you would be doing well.

            5. Again, not an overly difficult job, or even expensive spares wise, but you are looking at £80-£100 including labour.

            8. Another ball of string - could need one section replaced, but invariably it ends up as a whole system on a car of that age, and thats another £150-£200 hit.


            For what its worth mate, I agree with you wholeheartedly on your decision to get rid. You will probably get £100-£150 for weighing it in as scrap, and you will be doing the world of motoring a favour by getting one more Laguna off the road :snork:

            If you look carefully, there are some cracking cars knocking about for not too much money at the moment - one guy at work recently bought a Volvo 850 T5 for £1500 with a years tax and MOT on an X-reg; it is utterly immaculate, and if it had a private plate on it, you would struggle to put an age on it if you didn't know the models really well.
             
          • clueless1

            clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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            http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21759258

             
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            • clueless1

              clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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              Looks like I've done myself a deal on a nice old Volvo estate. I'm even excited. When I reluctantly parted with my last 940 estate it was because I was skint, just changed jobs, just bought a house, and simply couldn't afford to keep fuelling a 2 tonne tank for the daily 50 mile each way commute. I made a commitment to myself that same day that one day I would own another one. Of all the cars I've ever driven, there has only been 2 that I really developed a soft spot for, and of those, there was only the Volvo that I loved enough to miss when she'd gone.

              Because of their reputation as a farmers car, it always surprised my friends and relatives whenever they needed a lift, and would embarrassingly chuckle as they climbed into the tank, that inside they are like a living room. Big well upholstered seats that you just sort of melt into, loads of leg room, and an engine that just purrs ever so smooth and quiet, yet that pulls all that weight like a train. Of course as the driver I'm less bothered about the what the passengers think. I'm more concerned with the super light steering, the total absence of any engine vibration through the steering on account of being rear wheel drive, the fact that if my back or behind is cold you just flick one switch to warm the whole seat up, or if I have to go a long way, there is enough leg room to the left of the clutch pedal so that my foot can't actually reach the bulkhead/firewall that unlike in most cars, is a good 8 inches beyond the pedals.

              Now I work 3 miles from home, and I'm less skint than I was when I parted with my last one, so I've decided to bite the bullet and buy another, and I am really, really excited about it:)
               
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