Parents not allowed to parent any more

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Loofah, Jan 15, 2014.

  1. Loofah

    Loofah Admin Staff Member

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    :snork:
     
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    • Madahhlia

      Madahhlia Total Gardener

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      I agree, except that I don't think any amount of travel would have taught me to read and write and do sums.

      It's all very well to diss OFSTED ratings when you are not at the sharp end of them. Worsening grades causes massive problems for teachers and schools - although it's arguable whether a week's holiday here or there makes any difference to them.

      It's true that wise parents are best left to parent wisely in their own way. But what about the ones that are not wise? We are quite happy to concede that children should be protected from neglectful or violent parents, so why not protect them from feckless and inconsiderate ones as well? Where should the line be drawn?
       
    • **Yvonne**

      **Yvonne** Total Gardener

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      I don't intend to diss OFSTED although I have seen first hand how some pupils are treated to ensure their potential lower grades don't bring down the school average. I think if common sense isn't applied i.e extra support for failing inner city schools through deprivation rather than finger pointing is a much more pragmatic approach to raising the level of education. Once you put unrealistic targets in place, the temptation to "cook the books" (similar to waiting times in the NHS) increases which benefits nobody.

      Comparing a school in an area where the children arrive with empty bellies shouldn't be compared to one in middle England leafy suburbs, it's not apples and apples.

      Reading, writing and maths are basic skills and probably all I was really taught at school because they assumed I would get married and churn out kids.

      I now have a long career in the medical sector behind me, single and childless by choice so they couldn't have been more wrong!
       
    • **Yvonne**

      **Yvonne** Total Gardener

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      The line should be drawn way before we turn into a nanny state :blue thumb:
       
    • shiney

      shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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      I, also, haven't got direct experience of the problem but, having employed many people, I know of the problems that arise.

      The following quote from the newspaper made me laugh:-
      "Blackburn with Darwen NUT representative Simon Jones said: 'People may teach at one school, their kids go to another and their partner may teach at a third, so their holidays need to match.
      'Siblings also often go to different schools. It causes so much family disruption. "


      Isn't this just the same argument used by the parents of the pupils? So, teachers and parents have the same problems and I would expect the school authority to have sympathy with the parents.

      I did like what appears to be a good compromise by the school in the paper.

      It's not possible to equate the situation today with that in my days at school. We had one week and two days for Christmas/New Year, one week for Easter and 10 weeks in the summer. The other three days allowable were dotted throughout the year. Mrs Shiney's school was even stricter. They didn't give holidays outside of the few national holidays. Parents had to ask for holiday time for their children and the school decided whether that time was suitable. According to her father, no parent asked for unsuitable times.

      If parents took their parental duties seriously there would not be a problem with the loss of a few days from the school curriculum. They should be encouraging and assisting their children throughout all their time at school and schools could provide additional work for the parents to give whilst the children were on holiday.

      My sister and I, certainly, had work to do during the holidays - even though we had our holiday during the school holiday period. I think we are too easy on the children and I really don't get this 'mustn't let them get upset by losing in some subject or event'. They should be taught that you have to work for things, will fail at some but can excel at others. It's the parents' and teachers' jobs to find what they might be good at and encourage them.
       
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      • Madahhlia

        Madahhlia Total Gardener

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        I don't remember that my parents took us anywhere! Family holidays were an unfamiliar concept. We were packed off to school no matter how sick we were, also.

        Learnt quite a bit from roaming around unsupervised all summer, though.
         
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        • Jack McHammocklashing

          Jack McHammocklashing Sludgemariner

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          Same here, holidays abroad did not exist anyway..

          We did get around but only for a week in the summer visiting relatives in other parts of the Country

          There is a way out, HOME EDUCATION does not have set term times, Though I would not advise it

          Before I retired last year, we had a girl work with us, whose edumacationy was brilliant to degree standard, The problem was she was home educated

          She was locked in her room when Mummy and Daddy had social parties

          She had no person skills, ie could not converse, or be with other people without feeling shy, uncomfortable and frightened
          Eventually she was dismissed, not because she could not do the job, but had so much time absent afraid to come into work

          Jack McH
           
        • Madahhlia

          Madahhlia Total Gardener

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          Interesting. Poor girl. Of course, it could be her parents decided on home schooling because she was already showing signs of extreme shyness and social phobia at a young age, rather than the home schooling being the cause of her difficulties.
           
        • Jack McHammocklashing

          Jack McHammocklashing Sludgemariner

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          She had been home educated from the age of four
          She had no social skills, never been bullied in the playground or heard jokes from peers, consequently unable to handle Life
          If you are told in the play ground at the age of five, hey what a big nose, it is upsetting but you got over it
          When someone jokingly says it when you are 22 years old it is devastating not a joke
          NOT necessarily a big nose just general ribbing

          Jack McH
           
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          • Loofah

            Loofah Admin Staff Member

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            Who you calling big nose, four eyes? :snork:

            A simple 'get out' for the councils and school (should they want to...) would be a simple form for the parents to sign pledging they will ensure they will get the child to catch up on any missed education key to their schooling and development.

            My family holidays when young were cheap. We stayed on farms and the like where I learned about animals and their upkeep, ate some very hearty food and went on long walks in all weathers up hill and down dale. Very fond memories:)
             
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            • "M"

              "M" Total Gardener

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              Prior to the change in legislation, parents were required to make a written request to the Head of the school to ask for time off for such things.

              However, I cannot see anywhere in the article which suggests that the parents had followed that procedure either. :dunno: Had they done so, they would have had firm (written!) evidence that permission had been granted and the Head of the school concerned would have been able to back them up by using the "exceptional circumstances" argument (seeing as it was booked 11 months previously).

              On only one occasion did I make a request to take my two sons out of school for a holiday during term time. It was for a week (or, 5 school days, in Spain) and it was so important to me that I didn't want anything to go wrong. So, I:
              a) went through the official school diary dates to find a pocket of time where it would have least impact and still be affordable (end of June);
              b) checked the area we were going to see what local "events" were happening so I could strengthen my cause by stating the cultural argument;
              c) requested they were given work, and
              d) (most importantly) waited until I was granted permission before booking the holiday

              I was given consent, they were not given any work and we had a wonderful time.
               
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              • stumorphmac

                stumorphmac cymbidist

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                Altough I disagree with action of being fined for taking your kids out of school for 5 days ,Big brother is taking us over whats coming next.
                I do agree with a lot of the comments very few of my school mates ever went abroad the most we got was a couple of train rides to the Hastings and that wasent annul and yes I remember if you wanted term time break you had to fill out a form for the head teacher. So maybe ifas stated above they had done this there would have been no problem. But I do think the powers that be are getting too heavy handed after all its the parents that should control there kids and I am sure they would soon catch up with 5 missing days I supose next it will be a docoters certificate to prove they are ill and cant go to school
                 
              • shiney

                shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                When we were in infants/junior school we had a one week holiday, with about 50 of our cousins, aunts and uncles, at Butlins/Warners each year. I don't recall ever having a holiday between the ages of 10 and 22 (honeymoon). Then the next holiday was at a holiday camp (Pontins) at 27.

                We never had time off sick - I had one day in the eye hospital when another kid stuck a pair of plastic scissors in my eye!
                 
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                • Madahhlia

                  Madahhlia Total Gardener

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                  Oh, bliss! We were desperate to go to Butlins, our dad would never take us. In retrospect I can see how much he would have loathed it!
                   
                • shiney

                  shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                  I think that the parents really enjoyed it. They got rid of us all day long and had the adults of the family all around them. In those days having a family break was a rare thing.

                  I guess that there were enough of us for them to hire a 'chara' to get us there and back. I guess there were more than 50 of us as I seem to remember a lot of us kids playing and sitting in the aisle - no 'Elf & Safety in those days.

                  My father told me, many years later, that the only reason the family could afford it was because they booked a large section of the holiday camp and got a very big discount. I think that in the early days of holiday camps they needed to get the punters in.
                   
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