The refugee crisis

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by pete, Sep 15, 2015.

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  1. rosebay

    rosebay budding naturalistic gardener!

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    'more than likely; sounds like guesswork

    I did not say "all" - I said "most"

    Yes, obviously when it is just men then the situation is more likely to be an economic one (entailing sending money home to their families, if they have one) rather than due to the migrant situation.

    So what are you saying here? That you are not sympathetic about this crisis because (as you see it) only a certain amount are fleeing from war? I can hardly bear to look at the faces of the suffering families on the news. It gets too much for me....
     
  2. Jack McHammocklashing

    Jack McHammocklashing Sludgemariner

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    You have to be careful
    Some "do gooders" came round last night and asked my thoughts on taking in immigrants
    I stuck two fingers up at them
    They came back later and dropped two off at my door

    Jack McH
     
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    • ARMANDII

      ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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      I've told them to give you my two as well, Jack:thumbsup::hapydancsmil::heehee:
       
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      • Phil A

        Phil A Gardener

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        I'm finding all this quite ironic.

        Seems half the population from the really hot part is heading for Northern Europe at a time when the gulf stream is switching off and the folk that live in the North will be heading for the South to get away from the permafrost that will follow :doh:
         
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        • Anthony Rogers

          Anthony Rogers Guest

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          I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, I don't mean it to but.....

          No, I don't feel any sympathy for anyone who leaves their home and family in search of money/ education etc.

          I believe that we are doing the right thing as regards to taking people from refugee camps.
          The thing to do is to carry on doing this and to keep sending monetary help etc. and to send ANYONE who tries to make it overland on their own back home as quickly as possible.
           
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          • Beckie76

            Beckie76 Total Gardener

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            Not harsh at all @Anthony Rogers, I totally agree, you are right. :blue thumb:
             
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            • ARMANDII

              ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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              I think you'll find that once the men are admitted to the EU they will eventually send for their families thereby increasing the numbers by 10 fold:dunno::coffee:
               
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              • rosebay

                rosebay budding naturalistic gardener!

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              • rosebay

                rosebay budding naturalistic gardener!

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                The question still arises as to how many of those in transit are migrants as opposed to refugees? Think about it...opportunistic migrants must know that people are losing their lives so they would have to be in dire straits to risk a lifestyle change just based on economic grounds...

                It could be seen as a way of undermining the very stark reality that there is, indeed, an overwhelming exodus of refugees fleeing by focusing on the dubious proportion of those amongst them who are migrants.
                 
              • ARMANDII

                ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                I don't think it matters at the moment, RB, the EU countries have been overwhelmed, have changed their attitude from "all are welcome" to panicking, closing their borders with razor wire, and passing the "parcel" to the next country. So there will be no differential by the EU countries between immigrants and refugees.
                I also, personally, don't think it matters much to differentiate as economic immigrants are fleeing from a life of extreme living conditions and poverty, no future for themselves or their families, while those fleeing from War have "only" the added element of being killed because there is still a lot of extreme poverty and living from day to day for them .
                While in the rif raf I visited many North African, Middle East, and East African countries and seeing the extremes of poverty that the people had to suffer and endure made me wonder how they lived to any age. My point is that we make a lot noise about the difference between refugees and immigrants while they, [the immigrants and refugees], don't know, or care about, the difference. They only know that staying in their countries only offers poverty, repression, their children and family standing a odds on chance of dying early, living conditions of no clean water, scarcity of food, and diseases.
                 
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                • Jack McHammocklashing

                  Jack McHammocklashing Sludgemariner

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                  Surprising that people are happy to accept half a million immigrants into their home but ignore the 200 thousand British who are homeless
                  They will take an unknown African immigrant and offer a room but will not go out into their town and take a homeless junkie back home

                  Jack McH
                   
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                  • rosebay

                    rosebay budding naturalistic gardener!

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                    A junkie tends to be a criminal, i.e. they are likely to steal in order to buy their fix. I don't know how much you know about the homeless but some have mental illness, some are alcoholics i.e. they may well have sizeable problems that would not be attractive for someone to consider offering them a room. I say this as someone who has enormous compassion for them....I was one of them.
                     
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                    • pete

                      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                      But surely that is whole point of the matter, true refugees, do have a case, someone looking to get away from poverty doesn't.
                      If you life is not in immediate danger, you are not a refugee, IMO.

                      There has and will always be countries where poverty is greater than ours, lots of those countries also contain very rich people.

                      Just because you live in poverty in your own country does not give you the right to just dump yourself on a country where you think you would like to live.

                      If it carries on like this every poor person in the world will be turning up on the borders of Europe hoping "for a better life".

                      What would happen if all out inner city poor suddenly decided to go to Canada or Australia un invited?
                      I thgink they would very quickly get the boot, without any other reason for going there than, "I'm poor".
                       
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                      • ARMANDII

                        ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                        i'm just trying to find the real definition of refugee, pete, as we seem, for political reasons, to have put put people fleeing whatever circumstances into different categories. To me a Refugee is someone seeking Refuge for whatever reason. We used to call the centres for violently beaten women etc, "Refuges":dunno: But now due to the Media and Government speak over time we now divide people into different categories in order to say "Yes" to some and "No" to others in order to assert their own border, economic, and political control in admitting people.
                        Don't get me wrong I believe we need to control our borders and have only a finite space within the UK, but I've seen and lived next door to extreme poverty to know that people living in such conditions have every reason to seek refuge in another country to gain a better Life.

                        Actually, if you think about it, it has been happening for centuries. We built our Empire on just such a reason, America started that way and encouraged economic refugees for decades, go back a thousand years and residents of islands, thousands of miles from other land, took to the vast oceans in roughly constructed boats to find a better Life. What's different now is the vast potential of the numbers coming, their ability to travel faster, the information they and we have to keep track of things happening, and the charitable organisations taking on the strain.

                        And that is the point..............nobody wants the poor, including their own country!!.
                        If you're honest about it, even here in the UK there is a tendency to look down at our own poor and think "well, it's their fault":dunno:
                         
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                        • pete

                          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                          I kind of see your first two points, but not totally, there are differences between living a poor life and living in danger of your life.
                          I one you will probably survive, in the other you probably wont.

                          And countries do want the poor, we have been importing them a good few years now, especially now all our own youngsters are over educated and dont want to get their hands dirty.


                          Its the sheer numbers that are now jumping on the bandwagon that is causing the problem.
                           
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