The refugee crisis

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by pete, Sep 15, 2015.

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  1. Billybell

    Billybell Gardener

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    Exactly. The ability of the world to send immigrants to the west outstrips our ability to absorb them by tens of millions.
     
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    • ARMANDII

      ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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      I totally agree, pete, and now the reality of the sheer numbers fleeing into Europe has made the EU countries start squabbling and fall apart on their immigrant policies.:coffee::snork:
       
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      • pete

        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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        Did the EU actually have an immigrant policy?

        They, the immigrants/refugees/ migrants, dont want to go to some countries, they all seem to have their targets for one reason or another.
        Which is another reason why they cant be classed as refugees, in my book.

        If they were just seeking safety from war they would accept any country that would take them in, but if the EU do sort something out, and some get sent to places they dont want to go I'm sure we will see demonstrations and riots.
        Then the court of human rights will get involved :yikes:

        God knows if it will ever get sorted.
         
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        • ARMANDII

          ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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          I'm pretty sure He doesn't know either, pete!!:dunno::heehee:
           
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          • Beckie76

            Beckie76 Total Gardener

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            @rosebay as you have so much compassion for homeless people, how many refugees are you actually going to share your home with please? :scratch:.....and may I ask you, why you think we should let all these refugees/immigrants into our country BEFORE we give the homeless mental health care, a roof over their heads, the drug addicts the support to be clean & the education/training to get a job & stop stealing? The alcoholics the support they need to stop drinking? THESE people are our people who need help & support but we as a country are failing them....but we can help 20,000 + refugees! It makes no sense to me at all.
             
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            • Anthony Rogers

              Anthony Rogers Guest

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              Go Beckie

              I've been trying to think how to put what you have so eloquently put.

              However, I do feel a bit of
              :sofa: coming on.

              Remind me never to get on the wrong side of you :roflol:
               
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              • rosebay

                rosebay budding naturalistic gardener!

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                No wonder it makes no sense at all to you....because you read erroneously between the lines (i.e. what I have NOT said) and jumped to a wrong conclusion! If you read a previous post of mine, you will see that I endorse the establishment of refugee camps (on the previous page # 68)

                Beckie...I am appalled to be so poorly misunderstood! [​IMG]

                Exactly where did I ever say that we should let all these refugees/immigrants into our country BEFORE we give the homeless a roof over their heads????? [​IMG]


                I was not talking about the homeless in the UK in terms of who deserves priority treatment or shelter. Also, by housing a homeless person, I trust that you realise you cannot enforce treatment for their condition since this requires their permission. I accept that I probably didn't explain myself well. I was addressing Jack's surprise that people were more willing to house the refugees than the homeless. My post attempted to explain why this might be i.e. what their thinking/perception was, that's all. I was trying to shed light on the matter rather than be seen to take sides.

                I don't know what the solution to the refugees problem is which is why I have never said we should take them here. Just because I sympathise with their suffering does not automatically mean I am saying we should open our doors here.


                (Incidentally, I am not in a position to house anyone here in my small one bedroom flat. Apart from the lack of physical space, my mother is dying and I am not emotionally equipped for such a situation).

                I suggest you understand my stance a bit better before launching such a misguided and harsh attack.

                Thank you.
                 
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                  Last edited: Sep 23, 2015
                • Beckie76

                  Beckie76 Total Gardener

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                  @rosebay .
                  I'm going to appologise BECAUSE I don't want any hard feeling on here, I enjoy the forum very much & there are a lot of people on here whom I like a lot.
                  I too have felt very much under attack from you rosebay & might I add not only on this thread! Prehaps it would be better if we appologised to each other & moved on?
                   
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                  • shiney

                    shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                    I think that this is getting, unnecessarily heated. It's obvious that nobody on here has a practical solution (neither do any of the politicians) and that we all have sympathy for the refugee/migrants.

                    The arguments in this thread just seem to be going round in circles.

                    Yes, we all have sympathy (and horror to a certain extent).
                    No, we don't want them on our doorsteps.
                    We haven't the faintest idea how to solve the problem.
                    This country (and all the others) can't afford to take all the people that want to come.
                    We're having enough problems trying to stop our own people gradually heading towards poverty.
                    OK, it's not the sort of poverty these people are trying to escape but it's still causing a diminution in some peoples' living standards and all our political parties are rubbish at solving our own problems.

                    RB, I think you may be feeling that you are, unfairly, coming under attack but your posts are continually pointing out the problems without providing any hint of a solution (to be fair, I don't think there is one).
                    Unfortunately, your posts seem to, indirectly, criticise the others for holding slightly different points of view. I have read them with interest and agree with most of them (I agree with a lot of what the others are saying as well :noidea:). I apologise for having stopped reading the links you keep putting up because we all (or most of us) have seen what they are saying, many times, over the last months.

                    I, like everyone else, have no real idea of what can be done.

                    My own situation is quite clear in my mind. I deplore what's happening, can't think of any solution and have no intention of putting up any refugees in my house.

                    My ancestors were refugees (as are, probably, the large proportion of GC members if you go back far enough) and am able to trace some of them back to a variety of oppressions such as the Spanish Inquisition and the Pogroms.

                    I've spent most of my life (whilst slogging my guts out - and also enjoying myself) helping people. Having come from a very poor East End family I started working at the age of 11 (actually was washing cars at the age of 8) in order to improve my lot.
                    I have travelled around the world helping people and was even involved in the evacuation of Tristan Da Cunha over half a century ago. I spend a lot of time raising money for charities (not chugging), look after disabled people, help disadvantaged people and spent this New Year's Eve serving dinner to the homeless despite being decades older than most of them.

                    I would still not have any refugees in my home. Our home is our own refuge where we are able to get away from the outside world and are able to enjoy the fruits of our efforts.

                    Maybe it would be best if we stopped posting on this thread because it seems to be getting nowhere - apart from causing disharmony amongst the members. I think we've said all that can be said - over and over again.
                     
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                    • rosebay

                      rosebay budding naturalistic gardener!

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                      I would suggest that there is a difference between criticising your view - and attacking you as you clearly have done with myself. It is largely a question of degree although I concede it involves perception also. I did not misunderstand you or misrepresent you here either in so doing, as you have done with myself - causing me considerable distress. I am up for being held accountable for what I say but I take exception to being painted as something I am not and then dissed! Of course people agreed with that post of yours but it was never my view in the first place.

                      So, just to clarify, I was not talking about the homeless in the UK in terms of who deserves priority treatment or shelter. Also, by housing a homeless person, I trust that you realise you cannot enforce treatment for their condition since this requires their permission. I accept that I probably didn't explain myself well. I was addressing Jack's surprise that people were more willing to house the refugees than the homeless. My post attempted to explain why this might be i.e. what their thinking/perception was, that's all. I was trying to shed light on the matter rather than be seen to take sides.

                      If I caused you upset (which is never my intention) then I apologise.
                      A forum is about sharing and debating differing points of view though.


                      I largely agree with shiney's well balanced post above.

                      I am now discontinuing watching this thread.
                       
                      Last edited: Sep 23, 2015
                    • clanless

                      clanless Total Gardener

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                      It seems fairly clear to me - forget about the economy, whether we can afford it, the strain on housing/Council/NHS services or whatever - these people are fleeing for their lives. We should take in as many as we can and more - there's nothing more important than life.

                      History will look back on how the UK just sat there and did very little beyond throwing money at it, whilst Germany came forward. How things have changed.
                       
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                      • lykewakewalker

                        lykewakewalker Apprentice Gardener

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                        And so say all of us.
                         
                      • ARMANDII

                        ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                        Controversial threads very rarely reach a satisfactory and amiable conclusion and end, even on GC, and I believe this to be the case with this particular thread. Admin, as I have said before, make it a policy to refrain from interfering as much as possilbe with the progress of any thread in the interests of free speech and trusting the good humour and reason of members to discuss any subject intelligently and amicably. But even in GC strong views that oppose each other does cause strain. GC is renown for it's friendly, generous, compassionate, but realistic members who after expressing their views can step back, take a breath, throw darts at pictures, and carry on, which is why I love GC and the GC Gang.
                        So I hope you will all forgive me if I now close this thread as it's seems to have expended the subject and is merely reduced to repetition and misunderstanding of posts and go for a short amble around the garden to calm my Soul:coffee::snork:
                         
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