UK and the EU

Well, I'm not so sure about that, Freddy. I will be working for 5 High Court Crown Judges, [again], in August and they are all of the opinion that once we have formally left the EU, be it by Article 50, or any other method that is agreeable to the UK and the EU, then all EU legislation is null and void.
They do point out, however, that there are some portions of EU legislation that we have adopted and integrated into UK legislation and those portions will remain, but those portions will not make the UK accountable to the EU in any way. They're also of the view that, in fact and practice, the UK Government have the Parliamentary ability and power to repeal the 1976 UK/EU agreement give the EU legislation overriding powers over UK legislation ending our recognition of it at a stroke. They did point out that that is very unlikely due to the fact that the EU is now split over how long they wish to protract the exit negotiations and the fact that the UK is not in a hurry to instigate Article 50.. But when the UK does leave the UK it will no longer be directly effected by EU legislation.
Several EU leaders have now urged that negotiations should start now by initiating Article 50 rather than their earlier "tune" of emphasising how long it would take. It's basically all down to political will and if the EU itself wants to string out the actual trade negotiations to frighten off other would-be leavers of the EU. But, if you can look past all the political hoo-ha/threats/etc then all EU countries want to and will continue to trade with the UK because their economy and businesses would take a large hit that they can't afford to. So the problem with exit negotiations with the EU will not be EU businesses but the reluctance of the EU Politicians to have a lessening of their control and power over member countries. But money will follow money and even the EU Bureaucrats know where their "bread and butter" comes from, i.e: on keeping Trade'Export/Import happening and that includes continuing trade between the UK and the EU.

 

There is no logic other than a desire to remove those they know who would vote against the way the Government wanted the decision to go.

 

Actually, Anthony, I voted OUT because I didn't believe the present EU was the same organisation that we joined originally, i.e: it changed from a Trade Organisation to a Political Organisation with an agenda for Federalisation and control over all countries and I suspect a great proportion of those voting did so too., whether you will admit or recognise that. So I didn't vote OUT because of immigration but because I wanted to free our country from the tightening grip of EU Federalisation.
All countries are racist to varying degrees and you only have to look to Europe to see that. But the UK is in reality a multi national country due to centuries of immigration and the present "freedom to travel" ruling of the EU and large numbers people trying to find a better life than offered in their own country........so I don't think you're right, in your disappointed state of mind of the UK not voting how you wanted, to allege that we will be branded racists. There are far more racists in Germany and France and the rest of Europe proportionally than in the UK.

That is your view, Anthony, and you are entitled to it, but I am proud to be British again and only ashamed that we didn't do it sooner. But, as has been said earlier, this is no time for recriminations or outraged disappointment and now is the time we all get together, unite and get on with standing on our national two feet, look other countries in the eye, and get on with free trade and making a better living.

 

This is something that I can't agree with as I think it's a gross exaggeration.

All through these pages of discussion I've tried to correct misunderstandings about facts and figures and never made any explanation of which way I would vote. Although retired, for a long time, I'm heavily involved with businesses, immigrants, the disadvantaged and a lot of social organisations. I'm also from, to me, fairly recent immigrant stock (almost everyone in this country is from immigrant stock if you go back far enough ) and am married to an immigrant, albeit British.

All the arguments, for and against, were enormously exaggerated and blatantly biased.

There is no evidence that I have been able to garner from my links in seven (so far) of the EU countries that they think we are racist. The impression given in those countries about the result (taken from more than a hundred emails I've received) varies from admiration, regret, worry and confusion through to annoyance and disgust with both their and our politicians and media for the way they have acted.

I have specifically asked them to let me know if the people they mix with think it shows that we are racist and the responses so far say that they think our 'gutter press' may purposely be racist (to try and sell more papers) but they think we as a people are viewed as non-racist - but strange!

I was with a group of approx. 50 people last night and we discussed the situation. About 70% of those who actually said which way they voted had voted Remain. The two main discussions were on 'what happens next?' and 'what we thought of the campaigns fought on both sides'. Racism never came into the discussion except when criticising the tactics of the politicians but they thought that racism in the voting was not a major factor. I think that there was another aspect of racism (using it in a broader sense) that helped tip the balance towards 'Leave'. It was the attitude of the leaders of other countries being viewed as them sticking their noses into our affairs.

The result of the referendum, in my opinion, were skewed by these comments from outside and a sense of complacency by some of the public. I have no proof of this but just a feeling about the way the 'Remain' camp had been 'backed' by outside politicians and from the figures I was able to derive from the results. Except in a few cases the turnout of voters was much lower in the areas that voted to Remain than in the areas that voted to 'Leave'. London is the best example where most of the boroughs only had a turnout of 60%-65%. If the turnout in those areas would have been as high as the rest of the country, and in those proportions then it would have been a very close thing.

Whether that, comparatively, low turnout was because of complacency I don't know. That it was partly for that reason seems to appear obvious. It also could be that there is likely to be a younger demographic in London and that they didn't bother to vote. If that's the case then they have no right to complain (it has never stopped me in the past!).

My view of us Brits is that we aren't racist (although I know some) and I'm fairly certain that the other countries don't feel that way in general. What we need to do now is to work with what we've got and to show the EU that we can make a good result of it whether we agree with the way it turned out or not.

Having been brought up and lived in fairly deprived circumstances it has been inbred into to me to make the most of what you've got and to just get on with it. I, and most of my childhood friends, have lived through poor times and discrimination and have come out the other side with optimism and determination. That's what we need now

Oh no!!! That bloody pulpit popped up surreptitiously again!

 

Just ignore them, it's obviously in the media's interest to keep this story running as it sells newspapers and as for facebook, well maybe us wrinklies should be allowed a democratic vote to shut it down.

The idea that a younger person's vote is more valid than mine is obviously wrong, and to suggest that a Leave vote makes us racist is insulting. My parent's generation went through hell in WWII and would never want a repeat of that again, and I don't need to spell out what they were fighting against. So if anything an older person's vote should be given more weight as they have more experience and know what's important.

I'm not having a go at anyone on here, just a general observation about the trivia that occupies the minds of the young today. They should just step back and consider that is was the terrible sacrifices of their grandparents that gives them the freedom to worry about that foreign holiday costing a few quid more or mobile phone roaming charges.

 

@Anthony Rogers I'm not sure that what you have just said has anything to do with what we were discussing.

Of course we abhor all types of racism that pops up all over the country and tends to be worse in the more highly populated areas, but that is not what we were really discussing. Your words, below, were referring to the view that other peoples have of our country.

All forms of racism are disgusting, and it may be the topic for another discussion, but I don't think the awful examples of racism that you have given are part of the referendum. The racist may have added to the Leave vote but I'm sure that there are equally bigoted people that would have voted to Remain. They are a small but obnoxious part of our population and I don't see a solution to this growing scab on our citizenry, but what happens in the West Midlands is not apparent to other EU countries when they have their hands full with their own burgeoning racism.

That's a bit unfair! Apart from there also being problems in 'leafy country villages' there is no reason to think that we don't appreciate that there are problems elsewhere. I work a lot in the nearest town (only six miles away) to try and stem the endemic unfounded racism that has been there for decades. Fortunately the hard work has been reaping good rewards.

 

Good morning as you know I have always voted in but I am and will always be proud to be British and to live in such a democracy,I also am proud of everyone who took the time to cast their vote,that includes the in and out voters,I am not going to comment on your @Anthony Rogers remarks on the grounds that I am lost for words and that I have red white and blue running through me like a stick of rock