UK and the EU

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by clanless, Nov 9, 2015.

  1. clanless

    clanless Total Gardener

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    Scottish independence - what nonsense. Nic really needs to get a grip of reality.
     
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    • Ian Taylor

      Ian Taylor Total Gardener

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      Our son came round last night for dinner with his girlfriend, she's from Poland. They came round to say they were getting engaged.
      We've meet her loads of times but last night she was on edge. I asked her why she had been told to go home from some one at work who had voted leave. And was scared.
      This is stupid she has lived over here for about 6 years now and always worked.
      She is thinking of going back to Poland, and my son said he will go has well.
       
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      • PeterS

        PeterS Total Gardener

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        I am getting confused. There is much talk about racism, which I deplore, but I am not sure that I understand what it is.

        My belief was that racism occurs when one group of people are treated different from another group purely because of their race or where they come from.

        People in the UK voted to control immigration, ie people from outside. So yes that is racist.

        The EU has a Schengen area which says that you must treat people from within the Schengen area differently from those coming from North Africa and other countries outside the Schengen area. Is that not racist as well?

        Or perhaps its a matter of someone else's racism is worse than our own racism - but isn't that thought racist too? :snork:

        I suspect that a spokesman for the EU would say they are not being racist but are concerned at the sheer number of immigrants involved. Isn't that our position too, which they didn't wish to recognise?
         
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        • Fat Controller

          Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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          I assume that this is a rhetorical question?

          @PeterS - I have to disagree with you that controlling immigration is racist. IF it was done in such a way to exclude people from one particular place or from one particular religion/creed then that would be racist. To say that people are welcome no matter where they come from, but the numbers of people will be capped - that is not racist, but it is sensible and needed.

          So many of our services are stretched beyond their breaking point, with no money to do anything about it. To further increase pressure on those services by adding more and more people would be utter lunacy.

          This country needs to get the basics right - housing, health care, water and sanitation, education, transport and defence. Not one of these areas is working correctly at the moment, and making them work would in itself support jobs and in turn the economy for a number of years to come.
           
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          • Ariadae

            Ariadae Super Gardener

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            Yes we are a democracy but are the least politically educated European nation apparently, according to something I just heard on the news. Did people vote either way because of understanding of the facts, or because of their mates or the front page of the sun or guardian? Uneducated people have as much say as experts. Is this a good thing? Would you go to a plumber if you were sick? Or a doctor if you had a flood in the toilet? Did people seriously believe the NHS would get all that cash? Or that we will stop immigration? I just finished reading an article about the millions of eu money that went into building up the infrastructure in ebbw vale in Wales- roads, recreational facilities, new 6th form college etc-but they voted out. Why? It was time for a change. Would they have got that cash from parliament? Maybe but I doubt it. Sorry to rant, but sometimes I just want to cry at people's ignorance-and their unwillingness to learn and listen, unlike people on this forum who were making every effort to understand the arguments. My local 6th form college had a debate on the matter, listened to reasons from both sides, voted, and I think 63%were for remain-but I am in a county which was very much in favour of out. Maybe we should all have to go to political evening classes before something as major as this! Now I'll go and get the dinner on
             
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            • Phil A

              Phil A Gardener

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              Just answered a survey on an American site, thought you might like to see their take on it :th scifD36:

               
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              • Kandy

                Kandy Will be glad to see the sun again soon.....

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                I mentioned the bit about Wales and all the money pouring into their country in a previous post:biggrin:
                 
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                • Jiffy

                  Jiffy The Match is on Fire

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                  Don't forget the police, as you can't get one when you need one, at least down here you can't
                   
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                  • clueless1

                    clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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                    A nightclub door man receives a message via his walky talky telling him the club is full to capacity. Don't let anyone else in for now. Just then, a couple more revellers turn up. They are refused entry. Not because of anything they have or have not done, and not because of their appearance or anything else.

                    And hour passes. A few revellers have left the club by now. The couple that were turned away have come back, they'd been for a pint elsewhere before trying again. Nothing about them has changed. Nothing about the door staff has changed. The only thing that's changed is that the club is no longer full to capacity. So this time the couple are allowed in.

                    Just then, the door man receives another message on his radio. All security staff to the dance floor. A fight has broken out. Some idiot got too drunk, manhandled some girl, then turned nasty when she protested. The fight escalates. By the time our door man in our story gets to the scene, there is broken glass and spilt beer all over the floor, several innocent bystanders have had clothes ruined, some have been hurt. Our bouncer's colleagues are restraining several drunken combatants and our bouncer wades in to assist. Several people are forcibly removed from the club, and told never to come back.

                    This is fiction. Although it is based on experience of what typically happens in clubs across the land. Britain is of course not a nightclub. Nor is it entirely full. But the concept and principle is the same.

                    In our nightclub story, is there an underlying theme of racism?
                     
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                    • clanless

                      clanless Total Gardener

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                      In which case the EU itself is racist - by restricting border access to non EU citizens - so we have voted to leave a racist outfit?

                      Immigration is not about persecuting a particular group of people - it's about controlling who comes in - we want immigrants who bring the skills we need for the country - no matter where they are from; their religion, colour of their skin etc. - immigration control is not racist.

                      As for younger people moaning:

                      1 - they should have voted in larger numbers;
                      2 - older people have the benefit of knowing what it was like before we joined - and have voted accordingly.
                       
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                      • shiney

                        shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                        I've received a number of emails from friends and family asking me to sign a petition. This is what I replied (I've said some of it on here before).

                        "Sorry, I don’t click on links in emails. This could be a phishing email as far as I’m concerned.

                        If it’s a petition to have a second referendum then don’t bother to say it’s OK to click on the link.

                        I decided to abide by the result whatever it was. Both sides told a load of porkies and people had the chance to look at all the evidence (there was plenty out there) and make up their own minds. We live in a, so called, democracy and the people have voted.

                        Some people are saying the result was too close to be fair but 1.3 million (4%) is a pretty good margin. Just because there have been 3 million calls for rerunning the referendum I don’t think that’s a reason for doing so. 16,141,241 people voted to remain. So even if there were 16 million asking for a rerun it doesn’t make numerical sense.

                        Are all our elections going to be rerun because some people don’t like the result?

                        What about the call for anyone over 50 not being allowed to vote? If it actually happened then a few years later there’ll be a call for anyone over 40 not to vote! And then, maybe, 30!!! Soylent Green comes to mind!!!!!!

                        Although it’s a completely different situation it also brings to mind Martin Niemoller’s famous quote ‘First they came for…’ but in a reverse argument. Everyone had the opportunity and 72% of the population took it.

                        Now we need to get our fingers out and get on with making the most of what we have got. I think that we can do fairly well from all this mess if we stop arguing amongst ourselves."
                         
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                        • clanless

                          clanless Total Gardener

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                          I am intrigued why Jezza is still leader. He said 'In' - 70% of the Labour voters said 'Out' - on one the biggest decisions the UK is likely to make.

                          How does that square with him being the Leader of the Labour Party?

                          Sajid Javid is one the few MP's who is taking a measured and sensible approach to the whole matter. We need more of his ilk to give us some stability.

                          No idea where George is.
                           
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                          • shiney

                            shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                            Although I think he should quit I'm wondering where you got the figure of 70% of Labour voters said 'Out'. The referendum was for personal voting and not a party. The was no indication of which party a voter supported. If you're quoting from a Poll then you already know what I think of Polls! :heehee:
                             
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                            • merleworld

                              merleworld Total Gardener

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                              George Frogspawn has been conspicuous by his absence. He has to resign because his position is as untenable as Cameron's.
                               
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                              • Loofah

                                Loofah Well used member

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                                Apparently he's 'weighing his chances' for the leadership!
                                 

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