UK and the EU

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by clanless, Nov 9, 2015.

  1. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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    Errrr, I'm not sure that I understand your interpretation of the situation if you're talking about Labour, clueless:dunno::doh:
    :scratch::snorky:

    The Labour Party MP's were voted in by the all the Labour voters in the UK [just under 10,000, 000], whereas Jeremy Corbyn was voted in by the Labour Party with a membership of around 270, 000. So the Labour Mp's that have resigned from the Shadow Cabinet have done so because they recognise that there will be no chance of the Labour Party winning the next General Election with Corbyn as Leader. I don't think there are many Labour voters who would vote for him should the occasion arise. I've voted Labour throughout my Life, but there is no circumstance where I could vote Labour with a man who reminds me of Steptoe.
    So, to me, those MP's have put their Country and Party first by choosing not to be hypocritical by staying in the Shadow Cabinet and resigning. They haven't said "not my problem, Pal", what they have said is "There's a major problem here, our Leader is not fit for purpose". The MP's who've resigned are just highlighting the downslide the Labour Party is in and, to me, have taken the right action.:dunno::snork:
     
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    • Phil A

      Phil A Gardener

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      I've always voted labour, but won't vote for weasel face.

      Looking forward to cigarettes coming down to the non eu price of 50p a packet :yay:
       
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      • clueless1

        clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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        There have been times when I've doubted the leadership of my boss. Not my current boss I hasten to add, but past bosses. But I respected my colleagues and our clients and partners, so I got on with doing the best job I could. Many times I had full and frank exchanges with said bosses, in an effort to make them see some sense.

        Rewind right back to the very start of my career. A client suggested I'd made a mistake that would cost them 250k. There was a full investigation, but I had no reason to doubt the client. So I confessed to my boss, and offer to throw myself onto my sword so to speak, allowing him to tell the client he'd fired me, hopefully appeasing the client and avoiding legal action. My boss's response has stuck in my mind ever since. He said, 'if I let you do that, it will look like I employ idiots, besides which, you'll go off and have a good career while I and your colleagues will still have to deal with the fallout '. It turned out that I hadn't made a mistake at all. But it was made clear that any error was by the company and I would not be fired. The investigation was to find out what went wrong so we could prevent it happening again.

        What we've seen from all the mps is the exact opposite. They're ship had a small fire on it. They could have worked together to extinguish the fire, then sail on. But instead they doused the fire with petrol and then jumped overboard.
         
      • longk

        longk Total Gardener

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        They've been keeping their powder very largely dry just like Theresa May has. So she will be the new Tory leader who calls an early election (I thought that we now had fixed term parliament spells but there you go) and then loses power as the fickle Brits vote the LibDems in by a landslide.

        I put my hands up and say that xenophobic would have been a better word. :redface:

        Not really. I loath him but he has been bullied into backing down on an emergency budget. If the roof of your house was coming down all around you would you sit on your hands hoping that it'll be ok probably or would you get off your ass and do something about it? He should be acting but has been told that it is really not a good idea if there is to be an early election.

        "Foreigners nick our jobs, houses and benefits" was a popular refrain not "lazy British benefit spongers". Just cos the spongers (and I talk about those who have made a career choice to live off the state and not those who do need help) are British it doesn't give them the right. And immigrants (with the exception of refugees) cannot claim benefits until they have worked for four years. Many of the bellyachers about immigrants had no interest in the number of people in the UK.
        I'm not saying anyone in this discussion is racist/xenophobic. But the xenophobic attitude is not uncommon in the UK and has been much more out in the open of late.
         
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        • Loofah

          Loofah Well used member

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          Which raises the big question... Why did the ship have petrol on board?! (but point taken) ;)
           
        • pete

          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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          There are lazy British people, there are immigrants on the gravy train, its not a one way street.
          But could you survive, no, actually "live" on some of the hourly rates that migrant workers are getting by on.
          On the news tonight the fruit growers of Kent were saying they might not be able to grow apples because they rely on cheap labour from eastern Europe.
          No local people apply.
          I wonder why??????

          I've seen the living conditions of the apple pickers, caravans parked in an orchard, no rates, no heating bills, and they all go back home in the winter, rich by their standards.
          That is what the EU is about.
           
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          • Anthony Rogers

            Anthony Rogers Guest

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            It's not the immigrants who take our jobs, it's the employers etc who give them to them.

            Also, any employers not paying minimum wage should be fined or even closed down.

            Local unemployed people should be made to take the jobs or have their benefits cut.
             
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            • pete

              pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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              I couldn't live on the minimum wage, I could perhaps survive.

              So we should all go into survival mode:biggrin:

              I've been unemployed, first time in 40yrs, and they treat you like shite at the job centre, for £70 a week.
              I told them where to poke it.
               
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              • jennywren

                jennywren Gardener

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              • clueless1

                clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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                They were keeping it to one side, waiting for a small fire. They needed the petrol to make it bigger.
                 
              • pete

                pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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              • Anthony Rogers

                Anthony Rogers Guest

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                Sorry Pete, that's not all you would have received.
                You'd have got housing benefit, community charge benefit, free prescriptions, health care, optical care, dental care.

                I get £101 a week, I don't just survive. I've got my own flat, I treat myself occasionally and I buy stuff for the garden.

                It's about money management and living within your means.
                 
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                • CanadianLori

                  CanadianLori Total Gardener

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                  We have migrant workers come here too but they have work permits which are obviously controlled by our federal government. And there is an expiration date. Many want to stay permanently and they are obliged to go through the process of immigration the same way as an engineer, doctor, cuckoo clock cleaner, whatever. The only exception has been our recent intake of Syrian refugees who were fast tracked.

                  @longk yes there are a lot of people who have irrational fears of those from other countries but I would never believe that 52% of British people are frightened idiots! Far from it. And I think the 52% saw this referendum as an opportunity for change .

                  just mho
                   
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                  • pete

                    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                    Nope you got it wrong Anthony.
                    No free prescriptions or any of that.
                    Not entitled, look it up if you dont believe me.
                    its called something like contributions only, or some such, all the rest is means tested.
                    All I got was JSA, and they work your butt off to get it.
                     
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                    • ARMANDII

                      ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                      I was made redundant three times in the early years and was made to feel like an Enemy of the State.........it was very degrading and demeaning for somebody who had a mortgage, a wife and family to support. In all three cases of redundancy I never got a penny from the State and that taught me to not rely on the so called support from the State, and to leave a job before it left me.

                      I agree, Anthony, but you only have yourself to "answer" to and support. But for someone with a family, a mortgage etc then the problem is a lot bigger and complex.:dunno::snorky:
                       
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