I've been reading the last three pages on this thread with regret. We seemed to have started to argue over what are mainly personal situations which, naturally, would differ greatly. Of course your view would be coloured by what has or is happening to you but it may not equate in any way to how it affects others. Two people can have worked hard all their lives but may have ended up in totally different situations, not just because of how much they may have earned but also because of how life and circumstances have treated them - or because of lifestyle choices each may have made. The view that you may derive from how things have turned out for you, or people you know, may be totally wrong for some other people. I recently quoted the situation of one of the disabled people that I look after. He has a very positive attitude although life, from birth, has dealt him so horrible blows. I've been looking after him since 1983 when his father, who worked for me, died. He lives on Disability Living Allowance (yes, I know that they've changed the name to PIP) and a few other benefits. He also gets housing benefit. When they brought in the 'bedroom tax' his housing benefit reduced as he has a two bedroom flat (although the authorities had given him two bedrooms because he occasionally needs a live in carer). I handle all his official documentation and sort out any other problems and told him that I could easily get the bedroom tax dropped in his case. His answer: "No, I don't want you to because there's a limited amount that the Council has in that budget and others need it more than me". Everyone has different circumstances and different viewpoints. They can all be right (or wrong) depending on the situation.